The Untouchables (1987)

Deeds represent. A clear and present danger

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and Present Dudes, a podcast sponsored by Saint Jude's patron

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For tonight we are discussing Brian De Palma's 1987 crime

caper, The Untouchables. I am delighted to introduce

alongside our regular rogues gallery of Rory O'Toole and

Sonia Bjorkson, Jen Lansbury, who I believe is a distant

relation of 1. Mr. Al Capone.

Yes, hi. Nice to see everybody and I'm

very happy to be here and very, very distant I discovered.

But you know, it's probably a good thing.

Yeah, it counts. It all counts for this.

Probably great. Yeah.

So how did you discover that you were just in relation of Al

Capone? Grandmother's last name is or

her maiden name is Puerto Rico and the Puerto Rico Capone's are

very tight. Heard family stories growing up

of course that we were related to him, but my dad is very into

genealogy and everything like that.

So I wish I had it, I asked for it, but he has this whole huge

document about the Capones, Puerto Ricos and we're we're in

there. I was like, oh, hey.

So yeah, it's his sixth great uncle.

So it would be my 7th which I believe is 1/6 great

grandparents brother. It's incredible.

That's amazing. Distant, but yeah.

Doesn't enough that the movie doesn't offend you that it's

showing your family in a poor light.

It's also distant enough that there's no repercussions, and

perhaps any living ancestors of Elliott and nests aren't going

to come and fight you. So yeah.

Sorry, Elliott. Cool.

Before we get going, I think we're all customary.

Thank you to everybody who's been listening so far and

leaving comments and all that good stuff to employ you.

Yes, again, if you like this, please follow it, like it, share

it, do whatever you want with it, but that'd be great.

Much appreciated. I grew up in a tough neighbour.

Sometimes a reputation follows you.

Robert De Niro is Al Capone. There is violence in Chicago, of

course, but not by me and not by anybody I employ.

And I'll tell you why, because it's not good business.

Kevin Costner is Elliot Ness I. Have sworn to put this man away

with any and all legal means of my disposal and I will do so.

Sean Connery is Jimmy Malone You.

Want to get Capone? You're sure you get him.

He pulls a knife, You pull a gun.

He sends one of yours to the hospital, you say.

One of his. Log Itchy the Chicago way.

You just joined the Treasury Department, so everybody knows

where the booze is. The problem isn't finding it.

The problem is who wants to cross the pump?

Somebody messes with me, I'm going to mess with him.

You carry a badge. Yes.

Carry a gun. Get your hands in the air.

You're all under a rash. You fellas are untouchable, is

that the thing? No one can get to you.

Hey everybody could be gotten to.

All right, then. Drive them to the station.

Anything happens, you shoot first.

You understand me? I'll.

Tell you one more thing, you got an all out price fight.

You wait till the fight's over one guy's left standard and

that's how you know who won. Just tell me, are you being

careful? Careful.

His mice. I want to hurt the man Malone.

I want to start taking the battle to him.

I want to hurt Capone. This.

Man can finger Al Capone. This man can put Capone behind

bar. What's can't you talk with the

gun in your mouth? Not to prove methods.

You're not from Chicago. Cool.

So we're here to talk about The Untouchables.

It's a 1987 American crime film directed by Brian De Palma, who

directed Carrie, Scarface Blowouts, Mission Impossible,

produced by Art Linson, written by David Mamet, who wrote Glenn

Gorrigan. Ross won a Pulitzer for that

play, and The Postman Always Rings Twice and weirdly Run in

It stars Kevin Costner in the same year he did No Way Out,

which is the first movie we covered Charles Martin, Sis

Smith, Andy Garcia, Robert De Niro and Sean Connery.

Set in see Chicago, the film follows Elliot Ness Kostner as

he forms the untouchables to bring down Al Capone to justice.

During Prohibition is the third film in which De Niro and De

Palma collaborated after Greetings and the film Hi Mom.

And it's also worth noting out we're recording this pod on the

7th of December, which makes it two days after the anniversary

of the end of Prohibition. So that's, yeah, that's a total,

total accident, but there we are.

The screenplay is really loosely based on Elliot Ness's 1957 book

The Untouchables, where he just really gassed himself up in

terms of how involved he was in all this.

And the the screenplay itself is massively fictionalised as we'll

go into the Grammy award-winning score.

Score is by Ennio Morricone but he also was nominated for an

Oscar for it as well but missed out at the film.

Won one off scale, which is best supporting actor for Sean

Connery and it grossed domestically 76,000,000, which

makes it twice as successful as No Way Out was and gross 106

million globally. I think it was the 4th highest

grossing movie of the year. So cool, right guys?

What I'm going to hand over to you guys?

What what was your experience of the movie?

Forgot how good this film was, honestly, I forgot how violent

it was as well. I forgot how just there's,

there's so much go, Emma said. There's a lot of brain matter in

this film. Like there's a lot of brutal

headshots. There's a lot of fuels, you

know, like the the back of the Dome getting blown away and just

would dress the infant girl sized elephant in the room.

The film begins with a small child just being fucking

destroyed by by by an IED that's just fucking picked up, you

know, and, and, and, and it's like, it's not even kind of like

the film. It's not even kind of there's an

explosion in the shop and then in the rubble, the Finder and it

looks like she's she's she's barely wounded, but she's dead.

But it looks like she's just sleeping and there's some dirt

on her cheek. It's like, no, she's evaporated.

She's atomized the picking bones out of things probably after

that. And it's like, fuck this film,

this film stats out its intentions.

This film sets its intentions out.

It's it it is just you've got this score from Ennio Morricone

that is isn't just a cop movie score, right?

Like it's a bit dangerous, it's a bit sexy, it's a bit off key

and horrorish at times. He's pulling in all all these

all all his background of everything from Jallow to, you

know, horror stuff and that as well in this just fucking a

detective movies score needs not be this good yet.

Yet it'd be one of one of the all timer gunfights, one of the

all timer gunfights. Almost 10 minutes of build up of

tension and then just brutal violence, much of it in slow

motion, much of it absolutely balletic and yet utterly,

utterly violent. I love it.

It's class, It is an all timer. It's like it's brilliant.

Some bizarre choices. I think as well in this film,

some some bizarre scenes, some stuff that needn't be in there,

and I see the floor of the rest of you guys for your opinions on

this film. Right, you've you've probably

got 5 things there that all needs to be talked about.

No, it's cool. So the first one, the score by

Ennio Morricone, mate, I couldn't agree with you more.

And actually the phenomenal score, I like it for a handful

of reasons. Obviously Ennio Morricone,

legendary film maker, soundtracks, hundreds of films,

loads of Italian films, 8 Sergio Leone films, The Thing, loads of

stuff. Once Upon a Time in America,

Jeff's case, anyway, what I live about this score is he he takes

the film is against the movie, right?

Yeah. It's kind of like a western as

well. It's kind of like, it's kind of

like you've got like a the corrupt town and all none of the

people can be trusted because they're all corrupt.

There's the bad guy who's in charge of the town, Al Capone in

this case, and he's like the the white hat, like our towner, US

Marshall, federal agent guy. He's going to come in and tie it

all up. Obviously he's the Treasury

Department in this case, but he's like the white hat.

And then he's getting his own. He's running a posse of like his

own good guys like Ujimbo or the Magnificent 7, that kind of

thing, right? And to do that, like obviously

Enya Morikode is like the is the sound of a spaghetti western,

right? He is the guy who came up with

the sound of a spaghetti Western.

And it would be really easy for him to have just done that

again, right? But he doesn't.

He takes little bits. So there's like that honky tonk

player piano sound that that uses for the piano in the movie.

So like Albert Al Capone's doing the town down, down, down, down.

Like that's all done with like that kind of slightly detuned

honky tonk piano. Yeah.

There's like a soprano saxophone that sounds a bit like a

harmonica now, which is awesome. And now my favourite thing about

the Indian Morricone score is the is you know, the fun fair

where they start like winning when they do that right on the

post office. And when they do like the charge

across the Canada bit, which didn't happen in real life, but

yeah. And then, then the final

courthouse bit. Yeah.

It's like this really kind of like again, doesn't doesn't go

to the western troops for the sounds of it.

It's like this beautiful fan fair with like that, like

Arpeggi like like it sounds like he's like a a white knight, like

going to charge it with a flaming sword was kind of coming

in there and like winning the day.

And it sounds like they're not like a bunch of Cowboys.

They're like Knights on a holy crusade.

And they keep saying like crocheted the cops and they're

like on a crusade. Yeah.

So the score elevates it. I yeah, I was I've, I were early

on on any of Morocco and I was going to say that for renewal of

drops, but but you brought it up, so I've done it.

The other thing you talked about, man, is the contempted

thing. We're going to hold that to

later. We're going to talk about this

the, the, the Odessa steps a bit later because that that deserves

more time. I'm going to seat the floor

again and and wing it around the room.

Sonia, Jen, what? What are your thoughts?

Yeah, I I thoroughly enjoyed it. I wasn't expecting the the I

don't know if you guys expected it to the the scores to go that

hard. I was like, wait, what's

happening right now? This is amazing.

It was it took turns. I was not expecting like the IT,

it felt Western at some point. So, you know, like actual

Cowboys going. I was like where?

Where did this come from? I, I was dying at the scene with

the baby on the stairs, Like what what is happening right

now? And I went down a few rabbit

holes in terms of the Capone violence that I kind of saw.

And I was like, this is very, very violent.

And the, the little rabbit holes of things like, did he or did he

actually not do these things in real life?

So yeah, yeah, I, I really enjoyed it and glad I watched

that. Cool.

Weed. Sonya, we kind of killed with

this movie because you'd mentioned that you've seen it

before. Yes, us talking about all this

intense violence, it's sort of my fault I suppose.

Yes, we've touched on the immense amount of violence.

I am usually not a gall blood and violence person at all.

I don't enjoy that in films at all.

Somehow for this one I'm OK with it.

There is a lot. I was mostly re watching it,

amazed by how much attention it builds the entire time despite

by today's standards being a fairly slow paced film.

Radio. Yeah, I agree with that.

I think it gets you early with. So the first first thing we've

seen in the movie is, is the setting up piece for Al Capone

where he's being interviewed by the press whilst he's being

shaved by that guy. When he comes across really

genial and everyone's laughing at all these jokes.

But then the Barber cuts them and draws blood and everyone's

like, oh, fuck, because they because they all think, Oh my

God, this guy could fly for a hand on any minute.

But we don't see it yet. We see him be gracious about it

and then continues on. But that's the initial kind of

character be of like, so Capone might not be the nice guy he's

coming across as because everyone's a bit afraid of him.

And then, as you said, Rory, you know, we get the scene.

Destruction of the child. Yeah, it's in the that's, yeah,

yeah, absolutely horrific. And it's in the screenplay like

that as well, just how it's like the girl get cut off mid

sentence and then just the shop, the shop's facing.

Storm holding it, it's horrible and even it's on thing because

that just covered it like collect some food for a sick mom

or something like that and and it's like, hey, Mr you forgot

you're instantly atomized. Yeah, there's a bit more set up

for it actually in the film than there is really.

Yeah. And the screenplay.

So you know how the in the in the film they have a bit of an

argument about the the green beer, which is a real problem at

the time during Prohibition. So obviously the you'll know

this is a Brewer, they weren't the controls in in place for

like sanitary brewing processes that there are now.

So what they used to have a lot of during prohibition is like

bacteria growing in in the Brewer I guess, which would make

it into like a sour, horrible mix and they'd call it green

beer. Yeah.

So that guy said he doesn't want to buy any more of it of, of

Capone's organisation because it's not, it's no good.

And the guy's like, if you're a fine boy and then leaves,

there's the briefcase there. You just see the we had like 7

years before craft beer got big and sours were in fashion and

it's like, you know, oh it's like a porn.

You've you've, you've saved my fucking hipster bar with the

food truck outside and exposed brickwork and you know.

And it's probably worth mentioning at this point that

the movie is less space in fact, and more based on the

Untouchables TV show from the 90s Nineteen 59.

This isn't the only time that Brian De Palma would take ATV

show from the 50s and 60s and then and then turn it into a

movie. Did the same thing with Mission

Impossible. But yeah, so why I say that is

Ellie and S is the star is the main guy here, which is he was

no doubt, you know, a a key figure during this period.

But he isn't the guy who brought down Capone ultimately for tax

evasion. That that was just a different

guy from the IRS called called Ellie.

And S in real life at the time was about 27 years old in the TV

show he was kind of portrayed by a guy in his 40s.

They've aged him back a little bit for the movie.

So coming across he was in his mid 30s when he played him as

well casts Elliot Ness is a family man who with a he was

married, but he didn't have any of his He adopted a son after

the events of the movie, didn't have a daughter, didn't have a

baby, ultimately got married three times in his life as well.

The wife in this played by Patricia Clarkson isn't named.

She's just called wife of Nets or something in the credits.

The screenplay that's indicative of the 80s.

Yeah, the screenplay calls like Catherine, which is not the name

of any of his wives in real life.

So yeah, they've kind of changed.

The real guy was apparently a bit of a flirt after prohibition

was lifted, became an alcoholic, you know, just like which is not

a character judgement necessarily, but the the the

whole sort of family man piece is this is not the same.

So they've but they've but they've done that on purpose to

make him into this kind of like Gary Cooper, Jimmy Stewart, kind

of like white hat good guy cop, high noon man shot Rudy Valens

kind of kind of thing going on there.

He obviously joins. There's the whole initial piece

where he tries to make his mark, but he hasn't got any allies yet

and nobody wants to help him. And they have that that initial

first raid on in the docks. What's everyone's opinion of

that absolutely unhinged Mad Max looking snow plough that they

use, by the way, for the raid? That's wild stuff, right?

That's crazy. I mean, I mean, people talk

about like the militarization of like American police now, but

back then the driving like a fucking Mad Max war rig in that

we're building. It's like, OK, OK, cool dude.

Amazing. Is based in part in fact

apparently so that that shock and all kind of like smash the

doors in don't give me time to think kind of thing is what you

did ultimately sweet so that that is I'm not saying I'm not

saying the war rig necessarily it's.

Like witness me just just like him and all those boys got the

silver spray paint. I would like just ride eternal

fucking Rider turtle on the Chicago Rd Christ.

That shit in Chicago PD. There you do not.

So yeah, so he has that that that goes horribly wrong.

And then we meet my my favourite character and customers friend,

the pod, Sean Connery. Like I said, I'm being accused

by people of running a Sean Connery podcasts.

I mean, if we didn't have plans for the month of January, we

could do like January or Conyary.

We could do Sean Conyary. However, we all know there are

there are there are plans for January.

Michael. Michael.

Manure, you mean? Michael Manure.

Maybe just stay for next year. Yeah.

Well, we could move that to March.

Man madness. Man madness, Michael madness.

I like it. So what do you guys think about

Connery and his introduction as character as Malone?

It's band. He's got echoes of your dad,

mate. I'm sorry, but every time we see

like an old school cop in a film, it's like that's some norm

energy. Especially in that a mental

Edgar Allan Poe film, The Raven, when there's a cop in it, looks

like that he's got big norm energy.

He does proper fucking hard. Yeah.

Exactly. He's got norm energy.

That's not why I like him so much, do you think?

Yeah, that's why. Remind me not to piss off your

dad. As if you need any further

reminder. Yeah, Jesus Christ, fair enough,

but. I kind of enjoyed when he was

kind of poking at the, what's his name, Eddie Garcia's

character to try to get him to, you know, be that person that

they want to pick and like, get him riled up.

Yeah, that is so good. That's brilliant.

He was. Testing him, he he was like, I'm

going to put if I pull out ASAP, is he going to put out a gun?

Yeah, he did, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I mean partially

he's testing him, but part of it's like racism activated.

Yeah, you do get a bit of actual safeguard racism from him later

on, don't you? Yeah.

He was giving a shit about his name change and stuff.

What's your real name? It's like, whoa, bad.

That's a rallying but, but it was a bit later on when he's

having a fight with the chief of police guy, Yeah.

And he starts lamenting what's happened to the city since all

the Italian Americans have come. Yeah, I really like his fight

with the chief of police because it's like you can tell Sean

Connery used to box a bit, you know, like he still has the

physical presence of someone who, you know, could actually

chin someone in the back alley, you know, and I like that.

I love that from like he's like he's like an older guy who like

looks like he could still give you a bit of a hammering.

And I think he's class. He's got good like physicality

about in like fist fights and stuff.

Even get an older and stuff things a bit of a difference

between like and Firefox. That semen cleanest woods in the

that bathroom fight scene and Clint Eastwood is a guy.

You can see shoot people all day, right, But he doesn't have

the kind of like in, in my opinion, in that film at least,

going to brawl our physicality that that Sean Connery's got.

Sean Connery looks like he could like drink like 12 pints of

heavy and then knock you the fuck out in the car park of like

a flat roof pub, you know? Very specific, go through

reference. Absolutely.

And I had to laugh too, because it's I, I don't remember who

said it or the quote, but they call them like the Irishman.

And I was like, that's not an Irish accent, but you know.

Yeah, he's really not. Yeah, of course.

Yeah, that's that's like I saw a really great review in like the

notes, the Peter Gary section. I'm dead happy Jen mentioned

this because obviously I'll see a voice of funny stuff again.

But one of the reviews is along the lines of Sean Collins, a

Scottish actor playing an Irish American cop with an accent that

belongs to none of these countries.

I mean, it's like Sean Connery refuses to compromise with this

accent. So no, Sean Connery just refuses

to give a shit. I mean, he's class, but it's

like the voice is like that the last thing on his mind, you

know, like he's. So I'm going to drop my Sean

Connery trivia at this point then.

So Connery, as we've talked about before, gets really deeply

involved in his characters and is not afraid of giving the

directors notes. Yeah.

So when they were putting this movie together, this is a genius

thing that they did. And I think they got nominated

for an Oscar for this but didn't win it, which is mental.

But they got all the costumes are by Giorgio Armani.

So like all the suits that everyone's wearing, which is

great because it's a brilliant era for cool suits.

And they did lots of little things, like to try and maximise

seeing people's faces, they made like the the brims of the caps a

bit shorter than they would have been in the actual 20s and 30s.

So you didn't get, like, lots of, you know, brims of caps

obscuring people's eyes and stuff, which would have been

probably a little bit too noirish, I guess.

Because this movie's not really a noir, is it?

It's too bright. No, not at all.

But Short and Connery, he was like, I'm not going to wear any

of that. I'm going to wear what I think I

would wear as a a, a working class cop in Chicago in the 90s

and then then came up with his own outfit.

And as you can see, he looks distinctly different from the

rest of the guys because like, even like Andy Garcia's like

brown car skin jacket thing is, is an Armani piece.

That was the Sean Connery fact. No, you make.

So yeah, you raised, you raised really good point about just how

everyone in this film looks like the coolest motherfucker alive,

pretty much. I mean, it is.

It is incredibly well costumed, I guess.

Giorgio Monument. Come on.

It's like girded and I really like I had a feeling that Sean

Conway might have had something to do with with his own outfit

because his because his wardrobe does look quite different.

It also gives us more kind of accounts backbone to my theory

that in Meteor he was just wearing his own clothes from

home. What I'm surprised by, and I

thought that Sean Conway might have had more impact on the

dialogue for his character because his character has a

really unique metre and he doesn't talk like anybody else

in the film. Yeah.

He's full of, like, all these little idioms of things that he

must to say all the time. So, you know, like the first

rule of law enforcement, go home and all that kind of stuff for.

Yeah. Go all life kind of thing.

Stamp, Stamp your feet to stay warm and you know, all that kind

of stuff and all that kind of thing.

But that's, that's all in the script.

The, the one big change that Sean Connery did do.

And this is a this is a pivotal change to the movie, By the way,

I think in terms of like creating an iconic scene.

So the, the scene where he enters the blood oath with

Elliot with like, you know, how far are you prepared to go if

one of him pulls out a knife? You put out a gun, he puts one

of your guys in the hospital. He put one of his in the morgue.

That's the Chicago way. That scene was originally going

to happen like in that bit of the police office.

And it was Sean Connery went, you wouldn't, you wouldn't talk

about this in the police office. You would have the there is a

line in the script that says these walls have ears and they

go out and have the rest of the conversation on the street.

But he said, put that up front and we'll go somewhere where

people wouldn't talk about it because I'm an Irish Catholic.

We'll do it in a church. So that's his his idea to do it

in that church. You've got an incredible shot

looking up with like their hands, like Michelangelo, the

Sistine Chapel, and you've got like looking at their heads and

you've got like the massive vaulted roof of that incredible

cathedral in Chicago. Like that was Conroy's idea.

This film is so Catholic. I mean, you could, you could,

you could probably easily get away with seeing that like 90%

of cop movies are very Catholic. And this is and then this is one

of the most Catholic films. I have a slight interest.

I love the oh, what's the podcast or not podcast?

OK, I'm going to draw a blank on it, but they explore the way

special effects are done in movies.

And I was looking to see what was done in this movie.

And I glad you brought up the church scene because I think

that was they called that his signature 5050 Philtres to keep

the foreground and background. Split Diopter.

Yeah, split very up late because I having some knowledge of that,

I was like how are they doing that?

And yes, Yep. But to keep both things in sharp

focus, I was. Like I love that that's such a

good pull and I'm glad you brought that up because yeah,

again, you see that you see quite a lot in like 70s

pictures. And then I kind of fell out of

fashion. But like Brian's Palmer sticks

with it and yeah, it's like a signature thing that he he kind

of pulls out. He does it in this, he does it

in, I think he does it in Mission Possible at one point as

well, which is like wildly in popular kind of shot them.

But yeah, there's lots of thing that that's sort of linked to

this in this movie. There's a lot of shots looking

up at people from a Dutch dangle.

And then you see the roof of the the ceiling of the building

they're in behind them, which you don't you don't see very

often. But because they use lots of

brilliant real locations in Chicago for this.

So like you get it, you get the vaulted roof in the, in, in the,

in the cathedral. You get the that beautiful

ornate roof of the chandeliers and stuff in the Lexington

Hotel. But Capone's in as well when

he's, you know, he confronts him on the stairs going down and

also the Opera House where he's doing these little bits of the

the press as well. Yeah.

You know, if a guy steals from me, I say you stole.

I don't. I don't pick him up for spin on

the sidewalk, all that kind of stuff.

That's brilliant. Yeah.

Cool. Really good pull.

I love that. Thank you.

Cool. So we have that cool meeting on

the bridge between Malone and Connery.

Jabs with the night stick. What's with the Mahaska?

And who would claim to be that which is not Love that

brilliant. And he's like the special

source. He's what Elliot Ness needed to

to start this investigation proper because no one was going

to help him. But he's got this one guy and he

has and he's got all the good advice.

Don't trust anybody. Do you want to avoid picking a

bad apple? Don't get one from the barrel.

Pick one from the tree. And then we go and see Andy

Garcia. And we're getting like the kind

of running the posse, putting together A-Team sequence.

Andy Garcia we talked about in our last episode doing a weird

fog on Lego on thing, but in this movie, he's fantastic,

right? It's when he's introduced in

this like incredibly turbo cool pistol range sequence when the

camera kind of goes down like the ranks of the dudes who were

shooting in like a normal kind of stance the time.

And then he's been turbo fucking alley with his with his, with

his revolver in his like tracky bottoms and that jog as to our

American cousins, but in his QR tracky bottoms.

And he just does that incredibly rapid draw and just what's

essentially a fucking augmented Mozambique drill because there's

a few in the chest and a few more in the head.

And it's like, it's sick. I actually actually had a go at

like trying to replicate that today at the my local range with

a total calibre, total calibre mark 6 Webley air pistol.

Fucking hell, it was, I'm so bad at that kind of draw.

It was embarrassing. I'm going to make the video

already and like I've got a bum shoulder.

So like it's difficult for us anyway.

And like, like it's like it's like a period accurate pistol.

It's it's a heavy fucking pig of a thing.

And it's like, and there's such a frigging moment when I'm

trying to like adjust and get an actual sight picture.

So it does not look as cool at all as how our our boy does it.

And it's sick. It's what a scene.

Then of course you've got, as I said, Connery's like I'm going

to get some fights out with you. I'm going to give you a shit

about your change name. I'm going to, you know, get you,

get you rajed up and yeah, it's brilliant.

Yeah, Bats. Some bats meant to join in the

team. Our 4th untouchable is a guy, a

fictional character. I should point out that Malone

isn't isn't a real guy, is he? I think he's meant to be a real

guy who's called Marty Lahart. He was a real Irish cop who did

help Ness out. He already knew Ness before he

before he came to take this particular role in Chicago and

he actually outlives Ness as well.

So he survived the these events and and died after Ness.

There isn't a one guy who fits the role of Andy Garcia, and I

already mentioned this, an IRS guy.

He was running a different investigation and didn't meet

Ness during it, but he's kind of inserted into the movie as this

character, Oscar Wallace, who is doesn't get a chance to properly

say where he came from, but he's now part of the team and he's

the guy. He was bringing up tax evasion.

And it's like we obviously if you know the history, you know

that's what you're going to say. It's done for.

So it's kind of like, I mean inserting that.

I will say something about this guy's character then.

This is America. They're not going to make the

IRS, the heroes, the film, right?

I mean, am I wrong? Am I wrong on this one?

Yeah. Like no.

Not the IRS. It's like everybody's like.

Yeah, it's like fuck that. Can you imagine like a similar

British film would have HMRC as the heroes and literally no one

would go and say it? It would do worse than Morbius.

Well, the reason why they kind of did this, what everyone

objected to was like a rich cheek getting away with not

paying his taxes. So Oscar Wallace, he's the he's

the 4th untouchable. And it takes a little while for

his kind of his idea of getting for tax evasion to sink in with

everybody. And when he because LENS is like

he's feeling a bit glum and done about when he first introduces

himself, he just literally walks out of the room.

So. He's like, he's like, he's like,

no, fuck this. I'm going to come back and

there'd better be a six foot 2 chart in the position of of of

this standard issue fucking 5 foot 4 nerd, this little man who

might have fucking contagious polio.

No. So in the screenplay after the

after the failed raid the road beginner, the movie, he actually

writes A resignation note and he's about to hand it in before

that guy comes in and like I can see that why that wasn't in the

movie. So that would have been like

ridiculous. Like we've just had this movie

first roster to work has one bad day and then he's like

immediately going out. Fuck this.

It's like, that's not very heroic.

I mean, I have, I have worked for people who've literally done

that. But then Gannett won't work in

law enforcement, so. We have tried.

Half the time we didn't get Al Capone.

I am out. Yeah.

So, yeah, then we get the really cool bit, which is Malone proves

his worth and has the good Intel straight away on where the booze

is. And it's like, right, I need one

more guy. We need one more guy.

And Oscar Wallace walks in like going like, oh, the dispensary

of this fence. And everyone's like, shut up,

nerd. And he's like, you're a federal

agent. Yeah, carry a carry a badge.

Yeah, carry a gun. It's a great delivery.

And then and it just cuts them. And again, it's awesome music.

And it has like, panic on the street, the one St they've

decked out to make it look like the 1930s.

And they just confidently stride across it with these like, pump

action rifles, walking towards like broad daylight, walking

into a post office, which a lot of people would probably be

alarmed at. And as they're walking through

the post office, you see people are like, what the fuck is going

on here? Like.

What I love about that scene is I am pretty sure no point they

identify themselves as federal officers just.

Walk in just. Walk in shotguns and it's like

what the fuck so. Good.

Like it's like America. And there's a brilliant bit

which they added in the movie, which isn't in the screenplay.

So they get around the back and it's like the door that is for

the stairwell that's got a little sign that's saying like

stairwell out of order, whatever.

But it's clean. Just the door into the warehouse

where they're storing all the booze.

And in in the screenplay, they just break in straight away.

Like literally like Connor just grabs an axe and just cuts into

it. But now that really cool moment

where it's like, once we do this, we're stepping over a line

like and the last time. And then it cuts to like,

Connor. And he goes, there's like, yeah,

ready to go, let's do it. And they break in like, this was

a raid, federal agents. And then like, I was like, no,

this is no good. This is no.

Good. And it's fucking just shooting

up at the ceiling as well. That's like the 1920s.

You go in fucking shoot holes out with the ceilings.

Like what? The policeman.

Amazing. Where's your?

Warrant just. Where's your warrant?

There's my warranty. How do you think he feels better

or worse? We almost laughed so much when

we do police films. He noticed that.

Yeah, I do. It's so good, man.

Yeah. Brilliant.

God. OK.

Yeah. So that's like, that's the first

success. And they kind of find out the

big important point, which is like, everybody knows where the

booze is. It's just like everyone wants to

cross Capone, So this this is them like put themselves out

there, marksman now kind of thing.

Yeah. Well, I love the narrative

economy of that. Like, literally like, I know

where the place is. We'd go straight there, do the

first raid, that's it. And then they go say like their

celebratory dinner and where they get the iconic photograph

taken, which is really nice. I like that scene.

It is classic. It's nice to see you work night

out. Work, night out, everyone's

enjoying themselves. Well, works.

Due when there's no fucking drama.

Do you know why no drinking there?

We'll go there. We'll go.

Oh man, couldn't be. Yeah, I've got a works night out

coming up shortly and my boss wants us all to come in the next

day and climb up a hill. It's like, have you ever seen

Band of Brothers with like they climb up Curry at the beginning,

like 3 miles up, 3 miles down. It's basically what my life's

going to be like next week. I'm not looking forward to it.

Don't let, don't don't let your. Boss, feed your spaghetti

beforehand, yeah? It's just an afternoon.

Actually, I should literally say on the on the XTM as well, it's

like an afternoon of like lectures.

We're running up Curry, gentlemen, no pain.

Depending which path you take off that.

Might be a lecture that could cause serious bodily harm, but

Oh well. So yeah, they have their works

night out. They introduced the Saint

Jude's. It's really nice.

It's better in the move than it is in the screenplay as well.

They don't talk about that in the screenplay.

There's just an awkward moment where a waiter tries to give

them grappa and they all thin him out.

And then and it's and it's, and this is like a it's probably the

only clunky bit of David Amit writing in the screenplay is he

just says, Malone says to Elliot Ness.

Once he's thinned out the weight, he goes, you're all

right. I like you.

It's like you would never see that.

No, he would not. He would.

He would. He would deny liking anyone.

I'll tolerate your Prince. He he he Emmanuel, proper song.

So once. Again, I've talked loads, so

that's the first little bit of the movie.

Any any of the thoughts bubbling up.

So we'll get the sequence sort of when.

Like they're introduced and stuff like having the work, but

when they have the works night out and having a nice photos

taken and stuff after that is them is is the next bit when

they just head for the border and they do this crazy operation

in Canada. Yeah, the only thing that's in

between. Is Capone's baseball bat speech

Yes, yes, that is brilliant. I was I was watching that.

Obviously I know what happens in it with MRM.

Like wait, in fact the shoe would drop and she's just kind

of like just ex just chilling watching it.

Just the scene when just there's that explosive violence and he

just raised the shit out of him with a baseball bat.

It's fantastic. It's man, Bobby De Niro is he's,

he's got that dog in him for just controlled bursts of

psychopathy, you know? Yeah.

Love the whole. Sequence.

It's going to bring up there. This is another little rabbit

hole I went down under for Capone because it's like I've

granted my distance in relation, but people were family was

saying like he did, he didn't do things like that.

He'd he didn't shoot up the wall of people.

I know that that scene, they were saying that that real life

incident was potentially not done specifically by him and

they were trying to blame it on his like other people that

worked for him because they they did in fact die from gunshots,

not just a blow to the noggin. So, but yeah.

There were other marks. That suggested that they weren't

just beating by bats. So take that for what it's

worth, but there's a lot of myths around Capone and whether

or not he actually did those very violent acts.

And he was the family was like he was set up.

OK. He was a simple.

Business bot are. We in business the.

CIA did it. They set him up.

Yeah, so there's a. So I think related to that,

there's that. So the the rounds table dinner

pieces is a fiction, I think. And then what they've talked

about is the potential real life incident is that there's a

couple of lieutenants that were looking to unseat him that he

then executed. And then there's a there's an

argument whether it really happened, But like there's one

argument that he did hit them with baseball bats and kill them

that way. And then, as you've alluded to

talk about, they were executed maybe at his word or maybe not

at his word, but by other people and then shot them up.

Yeah. So it's really interesting.

Yeah. And this is a thing we're going

to keep coming back to. Is that this film over eggs, how

violent the Kippoons organisation was in lots of

ways. They don't want to spoil it too

much. They didn't go out of their way

to like kill cops or certainly not federal officers.

They did do some of the bribing, but they didn't do the violence

so much because that would have got there.

They would have brought them too much heat and it would it would

have got the organisation shut down a lot quicker than it it

being. But yeah, no, really good point.

Really good point. John, Mike, you mentioned

looking at. The the shots from that scene

when the cameras like looking down and you said it looks like

there's like a knife stuck in his neck or something as well.

And you thought maybe that being cut out of him.

I haven't got a chance to rewatch that bit.

But yeah, so I looked at that and I couldn't find.

Anything about it in the screenplay either as the shot

then goes into an overhead and then pulls out classic Brian De

Palma Crane Jot. And as he's doing it, it looks

like he's got like a, a knife, like like a brown wooden handled

knife, which is like at odds with the silverware on the rest

of the table, like sticking up his neck.

You don't see anyone stabbing or anything so.

It's kind of like, yeah, weird. I don't know.

I thought that was his cigar. There you go it probably.

Looks good. Myth busted myth.

Busted myth busted live on Clear and.

Present dudes, but I'm getting it.

I'm going to keep it in. I'm going to keep it in.

Do not. Yeah, man.

Yeah, man. Yeah.

Man, do do not delete it because like I said this, this level of

integrity, investigation and deep thinking is why we boast

10s of listeners and then Speaking of things that didn't.

Happen, they go to Canada, it's best.

Yeah, so they. Never they.

Never they. Never.

Did this. It's an invention, but I like it

because it it again, hops onto this, you know, like it's a

Western vibe because they're on horseback and hats and leather

jackets. It's really cool.

Yeah. It felt like we switched.

Genres. For a second I was like, wait,

what? I'm like you guys just wanted to

do. Horses and guns and ride around

I. Just remember watching.

That bad good there are horses now there are horses now.

I love how the all adapt horseman as well, even like the

little like nerd guys like able to ride a horse and it's like, I

mean, I guess you only other options from like riding pillion

behind, like Sean Connery with his arms around his waist or

something. But but but like, I mean, I just

love how these guys are just so absolute super cops.

The course I can ride horses. Of course, this is they have

this operation to coordinate with the Canadians, right, and

the Canadian Mounties, like do they like go before?

They shouldn't just ride in and start like shooting like like

they're just like start. Laying down fire.

Right. And it's like the age of the

officer leading them and and the time this film set in, he was

definitely in the Canadian Forces in World War One during

war crimes, right? I mean, that look at his eyes.

He's like, yes, back at the saddle.

He doesn't approve of the methods.

Yeah, yeah, back at the. Fucking saddle lads.

He's just like painting German faces mentally over all these

Americans he's shooting. It's like, yeah.

So I think the. Canadian The Royal Canadian

Motor Police get a bit of a raw deal in this movie.

They're they're kind of shown to be a bit silly and that that

particular captain is shown to be a bit of a buffoon, isn't he?

Yeah, like he, he just. Goes goes in and starts shooting

stuff. He doesn't.

He doesn't listen to the I mean, he's brief on what to do and

then almost immediately doesn't do us.

Yeah, and he also briefs. As well, that surprise is half

the battle and then he gets shut down by Kevin Costner.

There's only less who's who's like, I don't know what, I don't

know what his credentials are, but he was like, lots of things

are half the battle, losing's half the battle.

I want to think of all that I saw.

It's like that doesn't mean anything good.

Like what you've just said, it's.

Words, they are words. They don't mean anything though.

So it's a coherent thought. Like that's not written.

That's not written in Sun Tzu. That's not like I was I, I was.

About to say, Elliot, that's talking like he's read The Art

of War a couple of times. That's when you're close.

Not, not, not taking anything in from it, really.

Yeah. Yeah.

But you're right. So the Monty officer fires from

a pistol at range, at massive range.

He's. He's, he's just, he's just happy

to be involved. I mean, he's the opposite of the

polite Canadian. He's just an angry, heavyset,

moustachioed man who's just popping off needlessly.

He's not going to hit anything. He's just having a good time.

Speaking of members of the Royal Canadian.

Mountain police who had involvement with the City of

Chicago Constable Benton Fraser, would have done this South.

That's the way I'm going. Jen, Jen, if you've heard of the

TV. Series due South maybe?

So my so my wife is American. And, and she wasn't familiar

with it either, but I thought maybe that's because she's from

Texas and it's the South. But it turns out, turns out,

guys, that's like a British and Canadian thing and Americans

don't have it even though it's set in America.

Chip mammoths. Wild.

Yeah, so it's ATV Series I. Just pulled it up.

In the I I've never heard of this.

Yeah, it's epic. So yeah, wow, is it worth

talking about it very briefly? That's a Royal Canadian Mounted

Policeman. His father is also a still

active serving mounted policeman.

Gets murdered by some people who or a person who's trapped going

back to Chicago. So therefore he gets us a

comment Chicago so we can solve his dad's murder.

He's helped by the ghost of his dad throughout and a death wolf

that he owns. And he teams up with a local

Chicago PD detective called Ray Vecchio, who's a bit of a

sleazeball, but it's great. There you go.

That's it. Brilliant show.

Watch it if you can anyway. Back to an early I.

Know when you first mentioned that?

I thought you said, I thought you meant Brandon Fraser.

I was like, wait, what? Yeah, I know.

The character's called. Benton Fraser.

Benton Fraser, Yeah. Played by Paul Gross.

Canadian actor. Anyway, right, But they have a

big shoot out. Our guy Oscar is brilliant with

goes mental with the riot gun. So a good man he goes.

On just this absolute fucking I love the trope of like the

little guy starts kicking off and he just does this mad

virtually suicide run across the bridge shooting from the hip,

dropping people left and right runs out of ammo and then just

you know, incredible God bless him in the screenplay in the.

Screenplay after that happens, he pulls out a pistol and shoots

a man out of the back as well. Oh, that's absolutely class,

man. Honestly, it's like, wow, that.

Should have been in the film He. Should have switched to a side

armour. Just mad dumped some guy in the

back. Oh beautiful beautiful.

So they capture a guy called. George, who is carrying a Ledger

and they go to interrogate him in their little cabin, but he's

a hostile witness or he's not cooperative but before.

That he didn't mention. It but before that there's

another guy that gets tries to seek refuge in that that Hut

that Elliot has to kill so there's a dead body outside and

during the interrogation it gets a little bit heared Sean Connery

slaps around a little bit gets told to go outside and then he

does some improv just. Absolute.

I mean, that's like offence wise, that's abuse of a corpse,

right? I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, I mean,

that's like Eve even in the 1930s, that's probably like lose

your job territory when he just picks this guy's dead body up,

interrogates the bit and then blows it's already dead brains

out over the window. It's a good grief And that now,

now that's the Chicago way. So, Pauline.

Kael, the film critic, yeah, said that this film was a bit

bland because the good guys were too good and there wasn't any

grey like morality in there. But I would argue that that is a

little bit dodgy and there's a bit towards the end of the movie

where LA Ness pushes a man of a building.

Yeah, for due process is taking place.

I would say that's also a little bit morally grey.

Would possibly the. Pauline Kale.

Didn't watch the whole film, possibly.

I like Pauline. Kale for a lot of her work, but

I do disagree with her on this film and I disagree with her

tremendously on readers. The last arc as well, which

didn't. Yeah, yeah.

I know it's like. Yeah, I mean, Sean Connery's

entire character is like he may as well be wearing a sandwich

board over him, which is like things are grey and by will not

black and white, you know, like he's he's do what he's like a do

what you need to do a get home safe kind of thing.

And if this means blowing the brains out of some dead body,

fine. You know, it's it's it's it's

brutal as well. It it goes to the most gory

thing he can do as well, which is like, you know, blown his

freaking brains out. A very, very quick diversion of

TV in the TV series RIP our street in one of the first

episodes the first season, there's a plot when this this so

river streets like people haven't seen it.

It's like a police procedural set in London shortly after the

track the river killings based in the same like police kind of

precinct, I guess, which was involved like specifically, I

think H division, which was a specific specific like area on

white like the specific precinct, I guess station house

in in in white travel, which was involved with the cases.

And this is this is kind of character gets arrested in a

brothel and he kills himself out of Victorian shame.

And there's this like other case going on and like this guy said,

kill himself in the cells. But like the main guy whose name

I've forgotten the actor and it's like sidekick Jerome Flynn

have to interrogate this other dude.

So Jerome Flynn gets this guy's dead body, fucking hangs it up

by its wrists from the bars in in the cell and just beats the

shit out of it, just beats the brakes off this dead guy.

And and it's like I don't. Have blowing a dead.

Boy's brains out is worse than it probably is because it's like

you're a because I mean, you're making that a closed casket at

funeral, right? I mean, I don't know what's

worse. Just like chinning an already

dead guy or just permanently, irrevably disfiguring a dead

guy, right? So.

So yeah. So it's interesting.

Great. Immorality.

So this. Is like right?

The act of it certainly is. I don't know if the film treats

it like it is. There is the this is like the

midpoint of the of the script, right?

And it gets. A bow tied.

On it, when the Canadian officer goes, Sir, do not approve of

your methods and he goes, well, you're not from Chicago.

And it's like, this is them saying right, this, this, this

untouchables, these guys, their unit is set up, they're fully

embedded and they've had to take the fight to Capone's guys on

their terms. Like their violence.

You know, it's a bit like in my favourite films, the life and

death is Colonel Blimp, where there's an incredible speech

between Theodore Christian Anderschildorf and Clive Candy

where they say, like, if you want to beat Nazis, you have to

use Nazi methods because if you try and do might is right And,

and be good and respect the rule of law and everything, you'll

get beaten because they, they don't care about that.

And you've got to meet them on that level to wipe them out.

And that is in the script and this as well.

So like when, when Ellie and S is making that case to the judge

right at the end, he's like, I've become that which I've

beheld and I need, you know, and this man's a killer and he will

kill again and I, I need to stop it kind of thing.

That's what he's that's what he does.

So the component parts are there.

So this bit happens at the big point, and that bit is where it

gets to at the end of the movie after he's killed Nitty throwing

off the the building. But the vibe of the film doesn't

really reflect it. Like the we're still kind of on

a roaring high here after like this successful raid.

And then the next thing we get is like a Capone kicking off

about it and being like, really annoyed about it.

But like, there's no inner turmoil with any of these

characters. They all fully believe in what

they've done and what they're doing is right.

And we as the audience been expected along going.

Yeah, fuck yeah. Sean Connery should have shot

that guy in the heads to make the other guy talk, because this

guy needs to be. Those guys need to be stopped,

and these guys are the good guys, even though they're doing

the exact same stuff. Think as well his oral.

Context of when the film came out and what's in the media and

stuff. And and we're seeing films when

cops are going to massacre everyone and get away with that

kind of thing. So, so yeah, like it's watching

it and like a 2025 mindset. It's like, oh shit, that's

that's actually a bit fucking shitty that that's kind of like

that's, that's that's abuse of a corpse dude, that's messed up.

But in in like a nightly 7 by instead take, you know, the the

the police should massacre everyone to see and then kill

them again once they're dead. So it's it's weird to think

about it. So.

This this movie came out in 1987.

We'll see now it's been like 92 years, 90 odd years since the

the events of this movie took place in 1987.

It was like 4550 years. Yeah, that's something I was

just thinking that they're. Like people?

Yeah, then. People like alive.

At that point, who'd been involved in that?

You know, it's a bit like, you know.

Exactly, exactly. There were guys on set who, who

were there involved who were like technical, you know,

advisors and so on. It's a bit like, you know, the,

the comparison now would be something like Once Upon a Time

in Hollywood or something like set like late 60s, early 70s,

you know, so it was much closer to people's living memory at the

time. Because that's a weird thing.

I think the other thing as well is because it's the 1930s and

it's like a foreign country to us like that everyone, even the

hoodlums, even the worst criminals are coming around in

these like incredible Giorgio Armani suits and stuff.

It doesn't land for us the same way as it is now.

And because. And even though, even though

again, it's really, you know, white Catholic versus like

Italian American story essentially that that's never

really brought into shop relief too much.

There's a couple of scenes where they talk about it.

But really if we if we're if we're watching it, there's a

bunch of white people in a room talking about it.

We're watching a bunch of white people shoot each other.

Yeah. When there's obvious kind of.

I mean like there's a. Time when like Italian American

people wouldn't considered white by some people at the time kind

of thing and like yeah, but in this movie.

It's Robert De Niro who's like the.

One of the most. Renowned.

Actors of his age at the time, you know, I'd be interested to

see how this movie would have done, how to come out in 1992 or

something, you know, like immediately after Rodney King.

I don't know if it would have been that much of a difference

because it's so different looking than and people might

not have drawn the same equivalences.

But end of the day, it's a bunch of cops go around shooting

people, like without any, any blowback on that server, you

know. Yeah, no real sight.

Probably overthinking this a little bit.

I. Don't know, maybe it's all kind

of movie, but don't know so. The next thing we get is.

Can you kick it off? I want him dead.

I want him dead. I want his.

Family den I want his house. Burnt down.

I want to piss on the. Ashes, one of the greatest crash

outs instead of history. Yeah, it's all timer crash out.

All timer, now is a good time to talk about.

Elliot Ness's wife, we've mentioned it already that she is

basically not a character. Yeah.

This was like AI see a golden age in in scare quotes time for

like the wife of the main character being a thing and just

not getting any, any characterization She has a like,

this is Patricia Clarkson's, like, first cinema debut in

feature film, but it's an utterly thankless role, isn't

it? Like she's a great actress

capable of so much more. And she just gets to be like the

sort of mooning and like, oh, I miss you and oh, you're great.

Maybe you could come back into my room and wash brush my hair.

This is like I'm I'm I'm I'm in this.

Films like so powerfully Catholic that he gots a pregnant

just by her saying, do you still have some energy left?

And then like about like 20 minutes later, there's a baby,

you know? No, it's like she she.

Has done dirty. I mean, she's barely done at all

by the scriptures, hardly in the film and and it's and it sucks.

Is that you said really, really good actress, you know, so it's

kind of up there with a this is the first film we've done a

thing when she's just said credited as the wife, right.

I mean, it's actually just credited as Nessa's wife.

That's what. Credit is so we've had two.

Films now when the president of the United States has credited

as just the president, and this is my first one, when a major

protagonist's wife is just Nessa's wife.

That's kind of messed up, man. We shouldn't keep a running tell

you of this because it's a bit sad.

So the. Next thing we get in this.

Sequence is the brutal slaying of George, who agreed to

testify, and Oscar Wallace in that service elevator.

Yeah. This is probably I don't.

Want to put words in anyone's mouth here, but this is probably

one of the more violent sequences.

I think it's probably the one that's most shocking to me, but

I'd like to hear anyone else's thoughts on that.

It's. It's pretty grim second film in

a row when there's a very fatal firefight in a lift slash

elevator because obviously smokiness as well had that

amazing one which which which wasn't A1 sided firefight.

It's like this one is you just see brutal executions carried

out by Frank Nitti shooting that poo and nerd lad in the face,

man. It's it's, it's cold and it ends

in just the absolute violent desecration, blood on the walls

with touchable and stuff. And it's the way it shops like

just in general, the camera work at like the opening of that

scene, like, and like the camera shows you that it's front Nitty

who's got into the lift and he's got a police uniform and he's

the T1000. I mean, sorry, he's the.

And yeah, they just, they just get utterly erased.

It's brutal. They really enjoyed it.

I mean, yeah, yeah, I see this. And then, like, at that point,

it's like, well, you guys are apparently no longer

untouchable. And it's like probably more real

for them that their teams get now getting taken out,

absolutely thinned out. Appearance.

Hey, Loki. Let's look at him.

Oh dude, am I the only one here without?

Access to a cat? Yes, Amanda.

Thus, that is outrageous and this.

Is unfair. You are missing.

Great joy in your. Life.

They should let me keep cats. In the barracks you need a

barracks cat man. You literally need a barracks

cat like the Navy cat from like. Was it during World War 2 they

had the cat and they made him like, oh, they made him his own

little paperwork. Was it George the One?

That was rated. As an electrician or something?

I think so, yeah. That's all the funny little

jokes in his paperwork. Yeah, yeah.

It's like. Oh my God, Incredible.

Oh yeah, I would generally. Get a barracks cat dude.

Yeah, I would just just. Mike.

Generally not recommend for the Royal Navy to to take on board

any German cats. Why have you?

Not heard of Unsinkable? Sam.

Yeah, what do you should tell the tale at this point?

Tell the tale of. Unsingable Sam spin the.

Dead. So that was if I'm not.

Mistaken the ship's Cat of Bismarck which was rescued after

the sinking and put on the next best British vessel which then

proceeded to be sunk and once again the cat was rescued and

put on another Royal Navy vessel which in turn again was sunk and

once again the cat survived. They did it like.

Trauma. 1/3 time but. Eventually they gave him like a

shore post in Gibraltar or something and they're like we,

we, we are not letting this cat on anymore ships because what

the hell. Asset Jubila.

They should. Have named him Midshipman.

Holland. Incredible.

Scenes. That's what it means.

So good, yes, so the. Untouchables are now touchable.

A little historical note here as well.

So the the beginning of the movie, an Alderman from one of

the districts in Chicago tries to bribe Ness and he's when he

says, oh, you guys untouchable. Is that it really?

They were awarded their name from a journalist called Charles

Schwartz of the Chicago Daily News who coined the term

untouchables. So just just a little bit of

history there. This is kind.

Of where I guess start as. So this kind of way like it

starts like infer more about like the kind of corruption

that's involved in like the kind of police sound of isn't it as

well? Because in first of all, like

you say, like someone looks out and says one of the cops has

been killed, which is then Loudon Nitty and I said Nessie

Nitty to get the uniform and stuff or whatever.

And that then like it's sort of like they're all kind of like

homes and on the chief of police and how he's dirty.

And then we'll have this like kind of showdown between between

him and between him and Sean Connery's character, which I

think is meant. I think it's a great scene.

Yes, exactly to say so, Mike. Dorsett is the chief of police

and his employees, it's a lot more clearly inferred in the

screenplay that that Malone and and Mike came through together

at the same time. Yeah.

And that that Malone's obviously kept his morals and is put him

back in the police. So he's still walking the beat

as a beat cop 30 odd years into his career, whereas this guy has

made himself up to a chief because obviously he's played

the game and he's looked away when he's had to and all that

kind of stuff. He's also revealed, however, to

be the source of information for like some of these raids.

So he's obviously like goes back with him a long way and he's

trying to help him out. But at this point now it's gone

a bit too rich for his blood. He doesn't want to be involved

anymore. And now he's now he wants to be

out and he doesn't want to help out Malone anymore.

And he says to Malone, you know, maybe maybe don't get involved.

Me maybe got a town for a bit, maybe, you know, just keep it

out of trouble kind of thing and.

That's no good for. Malone So the inciting incident,

I guess, is that the DA doesn't want to continue with the trial

because they've lost a key witness.

Even though they've got other. Physical evidence to to tie it

together, which is not strictly true.

Well, there's two bits that aren't true.

So in real life at the IRS investigation came to this, they

preserved the witness didn't get killed.

So he did testify. The the keeper did testify and

to the DA was never against it for reputational damage reasons.

He just always wanted to do it. But for dry effect here they've

made it. So they need to get another

civil bullet in order to get it. So they're going to get the

actual bookkeeper, this of a guy, Walter Pace, I think he's

came. Walter Payne, sorry, Malone

needs to get the information about how he's going to find out

where he is and he's going to get it from his mic.

And that's why they have that that brawl in the alleyway.

And it's a great fight and I know you want to talk about it,

Rory said. Tell me about that fight.

I'm just to be honest. I've said really all I wanted to

say I, I like the fact that it's Sean Connery showing the fact

that he does know how to throw hands, that he's like

believable. I mean, I always said that in in

like the con, like the Connery Bond films, he plays an

excellent third. He plays an excellent brawler.

And most of the films when he has to kind of slap it around a

bit and give people a bit of a beat.

And I think he's really believable at it.

And it's and it's class to say it's a character of a great

pathos for me. So again, it's it hinted that

more clearly in the screenplay, but he carries his dad's police

badge and has the same number as his dad.

He's living up to that, that memory of his dad.

And he's like, he's in that think that has been his moral

compass going forward. He's thinking like, what would

my dad have done? My dad wouldn't have went to bed

with all these Italian Americans.

And their organised crime. He would have told me to better

get off. So you can see that he's been

married but isn't married any longer.

And we don't know that story. We learn precious little about

him. In fact, Ellie Ness doesn't even

say his first name in the whole movie.

So he's he's Jimmy Malone, but you never get a James or a Jimmy

out of the Ness. So we, we learn precious little

about him really, just that he's been around the block a bit and,

and he's a. Hard man and he's.

Probably got quite a lonely life and he obviously lives in a

quite a austere apartment on his own, you know.

So when he's doing this, you know, he's put himself out on

the limb and he's agreed to do it and he doesn't care about the

consequences anymore. And then now he's having a fist

fight with the chief of police in his alleyway, bathed in his

red light. And it's like this.

This is like his final kind of, we don't know because we haven't

seen him get killed yet. But this is his final big

hurrah, really. This is his final big

contribution to the to the war effort, you know.

Yeah. Yeah, so he has this fight.

It's really physical, really brutal, you know, they both take

lumps throughout of it, Yeah. That guy bring pulls a.

Bit of loose wood, starts hitting him with a bit of wood.

All about the. Wood being used on him.

Shit, Connery fights dirty as well.

He kicks. The guy in the pods to get the

other hand, he's a brawl like he's a brawl out.

As as as you know, he is wanted to do so and he's like, are we

going to keep? Going around the houses.

Here he's going to give me what I want, basically.

I was genuinely. Worried in the?

Scene and was like, is he gonna kill that guy?

Yeah, I thought it was gonna go there.

Hell yeah. Yeah, and you?

Know and like. If if there's any character in

this movie that could have done that, it would have been, would

have been Malone, you know? Yeah, 100% no.

But nobody. Else in the film is a big people

of death kind of guy. Well, so Nope, Nope, nobody in

the police side of things is a big people from the guy who we

see. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Malone's death comes shortly. After this, doesn't it?

It does, yeah. So.

Malone leaves a message for Elliot and S to go and speak to

him straight away because he knows where the bookkeeper is.

But before Ness can go and see him in person, Malone is

assassinated. Essentially, Yeah, that

fantastic sequence where department has used a steady Cam

operator, but instead of it just been like an ethereal presence

floating through a space like. And this is a good thing.

Like it was used. In The Shining, really, really

well, instead of that, it's, it's a person walking through

space and we're looking through their eyes.

And he does this a few times in different movies and it's

really, really well done here. And the way he hammers at home

is that you see the hands like manipulate stuff.

And I don't know how they did that.

If that the camera operator was doing that himself of the Palm

was operating that camera and doing it himself, which might

have been the case. Yeah, it's it's almost.

If the scene's been ripped from a different style of film, it's

it's just these these moments when it deviates a bit from like

like detective movie kind of thing.

This is one of them. That's fantastic.

Just as kind of the kind of slow and sinister pace of this like

home invasion and it's excellent.

Sit down and silence. Watch this happens.

Fantastic. It's it's really menacing.

As well, like you do generally. Again, it builds attention.

This one builds tension in lots of different ways.

Yeah. But yeah, that's one of the one.

Of the more. Exciting ones.

It went to the film that came out by Steven Soerberg last year

called Presents. Didn't you guys see that?

It's like a ghost story about a family who moved into this

house, but the house is being occupied by a ghost.

And Steven Soderbergh operated the camera himself, a lot of it.

And it's just him walking around the house basically.

And people are having conversations and stuff, but

it's not shot as if it's not like a bunch of different

setups. It's like, it's like it's all

through the point of view of this ghost walking around the

house. It's it's an OK movie.

It's a really interesting experiment.

That's cool, man. But it's a whole movie.

Basically of this sequence. And then you get the guy who

thinks he's got the jump on Malone or relate to believe he

has and Malone pulls out. He saw no shotgun and chases

chasing of his house. But sadly that's the trap he's

walked into. Yeah, that's that's the setup

and the. Gets a significant amount of

shots to the to the chest from the front Knitty's Thompson gun

and down man gets gets gets gets sat on the pathway to beat Saint

Jude personally. It's funny because the whole the

Chicago wave thing, right? He pulls a knife, you pull a

gun. Malone's got a shotgun in his

hands. And this is the one moment when

he give you it from the Chicago wake is from all of Malone's

character. You should you should think

there's some guy in his house with a knife.

Malone's going to give them both barrels And then, you know, just

say come and get a van to take away this body and then just do

do a few Hail Marys or something.

But this is the point when like he kind of deviates almost from

like the way he talks about like living his life and working as a

cop, you know, and this ends up with his destruction, which is

which I think it's interesting kind of writing.

Not sure I fully like understand what's going on with him.

Like the character, because like the character that was shown of

him is, is just going to give the guy both barrels and then

maybe reload and shoot him again because you know.

Yeah, it's it's almost. Like a a necessary sacrifice for

the state of the screenplay, isn't it?

Because it's Oh yeah, yeah, back end of Act 2.

Kind of. Everything's gone bad.

I get that. But I think from the first time

I saw this movie when I was like in my probably early teens, the

image of Connery crawling along the floor, Yeah, leaving that

massive blood trail behind is is that that's the indelible image

that that that that this movie like was in my brain until until

I started re watching it again on the regular in my 20s because

I love this movie, like until that.

Happened like that was the. MY1 core memory of it and then I

picked it up again. But yeah, yeah, horrific.

I don't know if a human being would be able to do that, take

that many rounds and then make it that far.

And I mean, I mean. Ripped to everybody else who's

eaten half of a Thompson Gunn's drum mag at least to the chest.

But Malone's built different, right?

But they have to have this scene when he's bleeding out and dying

in a strong Irish Marran coated fashion, which is and which

witches and jokes opposed to Al Capone going to the opera and

crying at Pagliacci in the weak girly Italian American mode.

You know, it's like, it's like this film has opinions until

he's told about it and then he starts laughing.

And it's like, oh, it's yeah, Grim.

Yeah, yeah. That is.

That is. That is, that is.

Grim Ness and Stone. Finding Malone's body, Yeah.

As he's still alive, he's he's still alive.

Yeah, and he's going for the. I think he's going for the.

Saint Jude puts it in his hand. And he just throws out of his

hands and he's actually dull. He's final.

He's final act. He's final act.

Just telling them where the where the the bookie was going

to be. Yeah, that's.

That's enough. And his final?

Words as well. He kind of barks them up.

The music's swelling really, really high at this point.

So you don't you don't probably hear and he's coughing up loads

of blood and stuff. But he he but he gets his final

words are what are you prepared to do?

And then he dies and it's like, and that course that is like the

the big theme of the movie, isn't it?

For for the Untouchables. What are they prepared to?

What depths are they prepared to sink to again?

I think you get to lost a little bit in the hi ho silver kind of

fun of it all. But yeah, a more artsy fartsy

film. I've linked more on that.

I wonder if like David. Mamet, Kind of.

Workshop having his last lines to be sheer end of the lesson.

There's a lot of yeah, so this is a classic.

Mamet thing isn't there's lots of repetition of different

little phrases throughout the movie.

So we, we have that and then the next thing we get is one of

probably the greatest, most iconic bits of cinema that has

occurred purely because of a budgetary constraint, which is

the Odessa steps homage in the in the Chicago train station.

So just to I'll, I'll let you guys run with it, but I'm going

to, I'll set it up by saying that in the screenplay, there's,

there's two sequences that I will cut out.

And the first is there's a whole frankly ridiculous sequence

where they look for the bookkeeper because the

bookkeeper is betting on the ponies and the ponies betting on

is called Paymaster. And they decode that and realise

they're going to go and find the race where Paymaster's running.

And they go to this place. Turns out it's all a big set up.

There's a giant gunfighter that happens.

Most people die, including what they think is the bookkeeper.

Turns out it's a decoy and they discover it by ripping off a

fake moustache of him. So they don't that's not in the

movie. And then the next sequence not

not my not. My missed opportunity.

Of the movie Wait a minute, this is a.

Fake bookkeeper pulls up a little boustache.

Come on man. Yeah.

And then? Malone's like looks.

Like we're back to square one. It's actually all is lost.

But you can, yeah. And this is like, yeah.

That doesn't need to be there. So that's like 5 or 6 pages you

can get out. The other bit, the big climax

where they get the real bookkeeper was meant to be

taking place on a moving train. So Ellie and S in stone like

rush ahead and park their car in the middle of the tracks and

then hide it back further along the train.

I guess this doesn't make much sense.

And then they hop onto the train as it's moving and fight their

way through the carriages to get to the bookkeeper.

And on the train is like a priest and some of the

civilians, like a like a small child and stuff.

So it's not quite the same. Neither of those sequences I

don't think would have worked quite so well as what we get in

the final movie, which is this single location, really clear

geography of what's going on. Amazing sequence in the train

station, you know, as our marriage is barshit Percentkin

with the the baby stroller going down the steps.

Yeah, Rory, this is this is definitely your your wheelhouse

shoot outs. So I'm going to I'm going to

hand to you and everybody, please.

Yeah, this is this is so my wheelhouse.

This is, I just watched this scene just earlier before we're

sort of recording just to kind of remind myself of it.

It's, it's 9 minutes long and it just, it packs so much in that

didn't need to go as hard with this, that didn't need to make

it this good. And yet it is.

It's incredible from the opening beats of it, from the angles,

it's shot at the echoes of Stone's footsteps through,

through the through the building.

And that's getting himself and that kind of.

Like essentially kind of Overwatch position and then you

start to see people coming out and then there's sod and, and

then there's a old woman with the baby thing and it's like,

ah, he's, he's, he's got to be the crusading good guy.

So he's got this fucking shotgun under his jacket.

He's just bringing this kid up slowly, slowly.

And like the mom's like, oh, wow, you're so nice, you're so

nice. And he's just not seeing a

fucking thing because like he's like, this is bad.

This is really bad. Why the hell am I doing this,

man? Why the hell am I being a

gentleman at this point? Just and then when you start

seeing the kind of filtration in of the bad guys and they're

coming through when like there's no clear like frontline of kind

of contact in in in the scene. There's no like the white hats

on the left and the black hats on the right kind of thing.

It's obviously you've, you've, you've got both of our.

Heroes. Are in like kind of odd

positions for the for the gunfight, right, Because Ali and

S is essentially like around him right pretty quickly and then

storm kind of runs in from from go on.

I was going to say Ness. Is almost essentially in what?

You'd call like a kill corridor, basically, yeah, he's put

himself. Into the like because he's.

Enclosed on either side by higher, higher ground down a

straight line funnel and he's blocked by the bollards on the

yeah, his side of the so the the stairway is is broken up into

three lanes essentially with two sets of bollards going down them

hand rails, even footballs and yeah.

So he's, he's stuck there like trapped on like one side of a,

of a, of a Yeah. And then just.

He gets the carriage. Almost to the top of the.

Stairs and then that one guy he'd previously beaten up who

comes out and it's like it's on. There's one he like literally

one more step for this thing. He turns round and just just one

handed tags on the shotgun and it's off and it's crazy.

And I love the mom's reaction. I just love how ape shit she

goes because you would and it's like you're watching her whole

arc, whole development is all this is a really nice guy who's

who's who's who's helping me with the baby characters.

Oh, you're so gentleman, you're so nice.

It's so cool. And he's not said anything like

be cool, but I'm a federal agent and run a job kind of thing.

He's he's just been stoic and stalwart.

Maybe he doesn't like talking to women that much.

You know, I mean, we're all a bit on the spectrum here.

He he, he could have that going on, but then he just whips out

with emotional support. 12 gauge.

It blows this guy away. The bomb is just screaming, just

going fucking nuts. And straight away, there's just

this massive amount of gunfire as Buddy Stone runs over with a

pistol in each hand. You see some excellent

headshots. There's those bits when those,

those poor fucking sailors just try to help, man.

Those poor guys, poor guys, they're.

In a. Peacetime Navy that didn't

expect this shit to happen on the streets of the streets of

Chicago. They didn't expect it to happen

at all. And, and, and they get zapped

and it's kind of like this is the point when it goes so slow

emotionally, so balletic. It's brilliant.

And you notice how Elliot Ness was like ambidextrous in this

film, right? Like, like, like, like, like,

like he shoots with his right hand, his left hand.

I saw that because he the first shot.

He takes is with his right hand, isn't it?

Yeah. So he's yeah, yeah.

So. He's so he's using a shotgun

right-handed, he drops that, he switches with side on which he

pulls out from the cross draw holster like on Razam Pit.

And then when Stone gives him as as as well a pistol, he's using

his left hand because he's holding the baby carrier with

his. Right hand and stones holding it

up with his Yeah, feet but but but.

In but in the raid. Scene at the start of the film,

I'm sure you see him holding as 1911 in his is it 911?

I think it might be in in his in his in his left hand.

So I'm I'm incredibly autistic about guns.

I think that's pretty cool. Yeah, there's, there's just,

it's merciless. The violence.

There's there's not just blood, there's, there's, there's,

there's gore. There's bits of as, as my wife

pointed out, brain matter splattered around.

Then it gets to the real. Climax, the real, real

culmination of it, when Elliot Ness and Stone managed to stop

the baby carriage. And there's that one guy who's

like, I'm getting out of here with with, with the bouquet

Baron. The amount of sweat that's

pissing off the guy. It's, it's, it's, it's

incredible. It makes Tom Sizemore look

positively dehydrated. You know, like, like, I mean,

I've read this segment of references now, but that video

when Papa John Schnatter was like having this crash out and

he's like, these people don't know pizza.

Like I know pizza. I've had like 31 pizzas the last

28 days. And, and, and he's just more

sweat than man. There's that fantastic scene.

There's a fantastic combination that everyone knows that it's

one of the fucking best parts of film when.

It's like you. Got him.

Yep, I'm going to countdown 1, take him bang blows his fucking

brains out and then there's just a significant amount of gore on

the wall. The guy falls down dead.

Mike, you were saying in the screenplay, doesn't it say that

his head just erupts? Stone Roses, his gun and.

Fires and the bodyguard's head disappears in a shower of blood.

That's what it says in the screenplay.

It's like, that's pretty horrible.

That's actually that's like, actually more gory than what?

Happens on screen. Yeah, that, that's the the.

Tarantino version of Rambo, isn't it?

Holy craft? Yeah, it's pretty.

That's. Crazy.

There's nothing in the arsenal it's going to make someone's

head completely disappear unless it's like a 12 gauge at fucking

incredibly close range. 2 There's two really cool things

like the. Sequence ought to raise.

The 1st is when Elliot Ness knocks eyes for the guy who's

got the bandage on his nose. Yes, Yeah.

So that's the one, the screenplay.

Don't think. And that's the bodyguard that he

punched in the face, in the stomach.

Who's? Coming down to.

Stop him when? He goes to Lexington to to

confront Al Capone and he's like, because he's like, you

killed my friend. And like, I was like, I don't

care. And he punches him in the face

and goes, do you think he cares? Now?

That's that guy. So that's a really cool bit of

like, that's him going right. It's on now.

Because I know that guy. These are these are these are

his guys. I know that guy, so that's

really cool and that guy knows him as well more.

More the point, that guy, like, it's like the boat.

You're the guy punched me in the face.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, like. The both.

The both. Aware of each other at the same

time. And that's when everything

changes and it's fucking go time.

That's why he's got to make the hard man making a hard decision

thing of letting the fucking baby go.

Emma, by the way, it was like shit, shit, shit, shit, shit the

whole time with that baby carriage.

Yeah, the way that how? Brutal.

This video or movie was, I was like, that baby's not making it

out of this video too. They're not afraid to the

carriage takes fire. It gets shot as a whole, Yeah,

at least, at least, at least. Once it takes one hit, right

like towards, it's like real, real, real.

Yeah, difficult. Thing I want to point out was we

get early exposure to the weapon that Andy Garcia throws to

Elliot Ness. So because if it if it if we

hadn't seen it earlier in the movie, it would have been a

cheap trick to go. By the way, I know you'll say it

just happens to have two guns. But when Sean Connery is trying

to goad him at the beginning of the shooting range, he doesn't

pick up the pistol he's just fired with.

He picks up a second concealed weapon that he's got on his

person, which is a really small, some of those, yeah, like Silver

1. And that's the one that he

throws to LMS. Yeah.

It's like, I love that this guy's going through police

Academy, right? And he's got a fucking backup

gun for his, for his literal training sessions.

It's like this is this is this is the guy that you want.

It's like, it's like he's like, listen, 2 was one and one is

none, right? But but I.

Love, obviously the. Because because it's like, based

on, like you said, the really iconic scene of the Odessa steps

and battleship attempt. And, and I don't think the baby

survives in that film, by the way.

It's I watched that scene earlier and yeah.

And I think it's, well, it's will, it will, it's inferred

that, you know, like the whites wipe out pretty much everyone in

those steps, including the the baby.

Brutal. You've got like these, that kind

of interesting scenes. Well, it's obviously like the

scenes in a battleship attempt in the the baby's looking so

distressed, like incredibly distressed.

And in, in, in, in the Untouchables 'cause there's only

so far they can go. The baby isn't looking that like

agonised. You know, that step scene is is

riffed on and it's a little trope of itself and it's got ATV

tropes page. And so France had a quick look

at other things in which it's been kind of sent up.

So in films, I don't agree with 100% of these 'cause it's like

all these really homages. In the film 71, Gary knocks over

a woman pushing a pram while being chased by Ira gunman.

That doesn't sound right. In the film Brazil, there's a

short sequence that remakes the three most iconic shots, but

with the baby carriage replaced by a vacuum cleaner.

That's probably legit because. Rob De Niro's in both Evil

Easter 3. Ozu shooting the Nazi ape in the

eye recreates the famous eye scream from the scene, which is

incredible, but something. Something that made me laugh

here can't. Speak to that.

One it references a film called. Fantazzi Fantazzi There is a

film in the film in this Italian work.

No, I've never heard of this film, but it sounds actually rad

in the. 2nd installment of the movie.

Series The titular white collar worker Hugo Fantazzi is forced

alongside his colleagues to watch a much longer parody named

version of the movie as a routine ritual demanded by his

boss. It is during the Odessa step

scene when the protagonist snaps and yells to me Battleship

Katyompkin is nothing but crazy bullshit.

Then the narrator, Fantasi himself and first person remarks

in an epic tone. 82 minutes of applause ensued.

This film sounds bonkers. We also have the French

Connection has two and we're not pushing a baby card being shot

and so listening it. Plus a shootout down a

staircase. No, I wouldn't see the stack you

see in the French Connection isn't a March to the battleship

attempt and seen at all. I mean, it's no, no, this is

this is like there's a lot of reaching done on on TV trope

stop if stuff stuff happens on the.

Stairs like John Wick 4 is a really long fight on the steps

up to Sacre Kurd as I count. Probably not it segment, just a

moment I saw. Ellie walking down the step, the

stairs. So that's that's my cats now in

her own little battleship Potemkin scene.

So that's wild to me. I think apparently there's like

a homage to it in the second season of Andor as well that I

haven't seen yet, but I'm trying to think where that would be do.

You want us to pull it up? I'll tell you.

I'll tell you. What it claims it is.

In season 2 episode 8, a contingent of storm to us

descends a set of broad Plaza stairs by the firing of a crowd

of Israel protesters assembling. Yeah.

I mean, if it's so, so, so was it like the steady of like

marching steadily down and shooting at them kind of thing?

Yeah, Like, yeah, that bit, that bit, that bit.

Yeah, that bit. 'S accurate.

And then they're kettling. What is it?

They're kettling a lot of people into a big courtyard.

Yeah, so. Yeah, that, that sound kind of,

yeah. I mean, because obviously again,

iconic thing about the that's a step scene is the fact that the

the like white troops are kind of marching in like lying down

the steps and just shooting, marching and shooting again kind

of things anyway. Yeah, that, that.

Was a that was a clear and present diversion like about 5

different films before we move on from the.

Train station sequence. I just want to for the flow over

to Sanya and Jen, if they've got anything to add.

Yeah, why not? I was just the.

I need. To rewatch that scene.

Because I don't know where the those Nate, where the Navy men,

where they came from, they just like popped up and were shot to

do that. Crazy.

Yeah. OK, I thought I was imagining.

That I'm like, I need to go back and watch that because I don't

know where they came from. The steps were completely

emptied like almost the whole time and all of a sudden now

there's people getting shot and then they're just taken out by 1

bullet and then poor Malone's like taken out by like 50

bullets and still walking or not walking but I was like I.

Just found that fascinating. So that's the power of an.

Irishman It's the power of Irish Catholicism, those those

sailors, Protestants, that explains it.

Lutheran's just one shot. Done.

Funny if you got anything to. No, at this point, no.

OK, cool. I will say one thing here.

The bookkeeper is played by Jack Kehoe.

I don't know anyone knows this guy.

I know primarily from being in Citico.

I just want to get that mentioned for the third time in

three podcasts. I love that movie.

So with that, they have the silver bullet they need to take

Capone to court. So the final bit of the movie is

this trial, I guess. So we get, we cut straight

pretty much to the DA, the bookkeepers on the stand.

And the DA is saying, we're going to have you decipher all

of these entries into Ledger and we're going to have you say

where all the money is going. And he's like, he's kind of

bullying him a little bit. He's like, yes.

He's like, oh, louder. I didn't quite hear you.

So you've got Ness is in stone and they're sat right behind the

the where the DEA is sitting and they look at a cross over to to

Al Capone and Frank Nitti and his defence.

And they're all looking pretty happy with themselves.

And they're getting a bit riled up like this guy, you know,

we're we're we're hammering the nails in this guy's coffin and

he's smiling like, what have they got?

What's going on there? And they notice Frank Nitti is

packing, packing some heat. He's strapped in the courthouse,

so he's like that guy's got a gun, gun in the courthouse.

Get the get the bailiff of her. So they want to escort him out.

And so they do. And you see, you see, for the

like final time, you see his wife, like that's his wife in

the back of the courthouse watching I'm.

Also here. I'm also here.

Yeah. It doesn't explain what they do

with her. They pack.

Her off in the night at the beginning of the movie, you

don't really see her again for ages in the screenplay.

So that she's been her off to have a baby.

Yeah, it's. Like it's like, it's like, it's

like it's almost if we're taking an unwanted pregnancy of like a

Hollywood Starlight or something.

And it's like, you know, they in the screenplay, she's in a.

She's in a prison in Wisconsin under protective custody.

Anyway, they get Nitty outside into the hallway.

And this would be a callback to the very beginning of the

screenplay, but it's it's a scene that's cut from the

screenplay. But what happens is the guy says

I've got a permit and they empty his pocket's out.

And it says, and he has, he produces a small note that says

that used to be afforded all the protections and whatever he

wants signed by the mayor of Chicago.

And he uses. That in the.

Screenplay. He uses it in the very first

scene right after he's put the bomb in that pub and blows up

and kills that child. You get stopped by a bike cop as

he's driving away and he produces that note and the bike

cop salutes him and drives away. But they cut that from the

movie, and I think that's probably a good thing because it

hammers in that they've placed a corrupt too early.

I think that needs to be like a trickle in, like you need to

realise it as the movie's going. What happens though, is Ness

steals his packet of matches and then wants to light up a

cigarette when he's outside. And he sees in the match book

that it has Malone's address written down.

And he puts one-on-one together and goes, you're the guy who

killed my friend. And he flees and starts to

chase. Excellent.

I love it. I really like that through this

film, when there's like there's there's they go like double

action revolvers used right. There's a lot of like close-ups

on on on the revolvers shown that they are correctly in like

the hammer back position. When when when like the the

triggers like pulled further back, like a shorter pull and

like Emma, Emma, look, you see, that's how it works.

Something works, you see, you know, like fucking demonstrate

and do I succeed? This one's really accurate.

It's like 4 years married hasn't killed us yet, right?

It's great. I love I love a good rooftop

chase and stuff like that. There's one bit.

I thought might have annoyed you, but you haven't identified

it. Which is when they run out onto

the rooftop and Nitti shoots at Ness and he rolls over the side

and lands on that little platform by pure chance, rolls

on that platform as Nitti keeps running away.

He turns around and tries shooting at where Ness is and

gets like a dead man's click. Yeah.

And then the next thing we. See is.

A mess actually getting up off that, panelling off that

platform and then climbing back over the roof again.

So like, what was he aiming at? Yes.

What? No, it didn't piss us off,

actually. I also was quite impressed to

see Nitty reloading as well because obviously that's the

next thing he does. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's like. It's, you know, it's the 80s,

they're often kind of getting guns wrong in films.

And it's nice to see, you know, buttons being handled by people

as if they know how to handle them.

It's also period film, so I don't need to get mad when

people aren't doing correct trigger discipline because

apparently it wasn't a thing according to all the historical

photos to say, you know, like, like people run around with the

fucking booger hooks on the bang switches and it's like, come on,

man, I am. I am terrible to walk past like

film like kind of post us with with a Max uncle finger finger

fucking booga hook off the bang switch son.

I want to call out. Maybe we should do it in

casting, but I'm going to do it now anyway.

Billy Drago, who, who plays Frank Nitti is, is phenomenal in

this film. And I don't know, he's he's

looking his career. He's been in lots and lots of

stuff in small rules. And when you know it, he plays

like an evil bad guy in most stuff because he has a pretty

like, almost quintessential evil grin, Right?

Yeah. Yeah.

But he's really menacing in this.

And he's of a known for credits on on of the calibre of this.

Like it's like Delta Force 2 with like Chuck Norris or like

Tremors, Tremors 4, you know, he says the last thing he did was a

yet another remake of The Hills Have Eyes in 2006.

Yeah, but but this is brilliant. And he's really good in this.

And he he's really menacing, properly menacing.

And I say that because, like, for all the moral ambiguity that

goes on in this film, it is still genuinely like, super

satisfying when he gets through that building.

You feel bad. I feel bad as a human being.

But like, when you when they love offering, he's like, he's

like, you know, but your friends screamed like a like a like a

stuck Irish pig. Think about that.

When I, when I, when I beat the rap and he's like, fuck, you're

going to beat the rap. I'm going to kill you.

Yeah, man. Where's Nitty?

He's in the car. Oh man, bars.

What a lane. Hold up.

His writing is this fire. Yeah.

So that that's. Really cool.

And then I'm just going to I'm going to barrel through the the

end of the movie because we've been out of there Stone.

Finds through looking. Through the belongings that was

taken out of his pockets and left before the the chase

ensued. That one of the things he's got

is the list of all the jurors and the bribes that have been

paid. Are they sidebar?

With the judge. To try and get the a mistrial or

get a new jury. The judge doesn't want anything

else to do with it. He's like, oh, this is this

doesn't there's no evidence for this.

And it's like, mate, it's so obvious and it's really obvious

that he's, he's obviously, he's obviously been paid off as well.

But he tells him, doesn't he? Like he says.

After the fight, Oh yeah, SWAT told him he was on the island.

I mean, sorry, on the list in the lecture in in the Epstein

book, I mean, I mean the Capone lecture, Yeah, absolutely.

And then there's a line. Actually, in the screenplay that

is not in the film and it's it's it's probably like almost too,

too fine a point on it because it's pretty obvious what's just

happened. But it quotes that bit from the

Bible in Proverbs. Where is it?

Here we go. The evil flee where no man

pursueth. That's what that's what Ness

says. Again, more bars.

But but the the point being that the guy, the guy's got a guilty

conscience and even though we have no evidence he was in the

Ledger just saying it was enough because he knows which is done

wrong. So yeah.

So they swap out the juries with a with.

A with a divorce. Case.

Yeah. Are divorce cases heard by

juries in America? Because that's wild.

I don't think anymore. Because it's a civil action,

right? You don't have a jury for a

civil action. But I don't know what happened

in 1930. I I think it's.

Just like you go through a lawyer and send off a shit tonne

of paperwork to a judge and they sign off.

As far as I know, yeah. I wonder if it was much.

Harder to get a divorce in 1930, probably.

You know, like women. When a lot of bank.

Accounts. Were they back then?

No, that was. Not allowed until like the 70s

because I work for a financial institution and we always have

to do. Tests and quizzes.

To make. Sure.

We're up to date on everything and that is in there like women

not allowed to have bank accounts and need to be a have a

cosigner if they wanted loans and things like that.

So yeah, I'm going to doubt that a divorce was easy in recent

30s. That's terrible.

OK, cool. So.

We're right at the end of the movie and the judge has now been

shamed or is afraid of the what, what, what truths might come

out. So he switches the juries.

This. Finally puts.

The wind on Capone's defence on Capone's like, what are you

going to do about it? What do you do about it?

He changes his plea from a not guilty plea to a guilty plea.

But the music swells in this. Is it?

Either way, he's going to be going down and they'll be

seeking the maximum a sentence possible.

And it just turns into absolute pandemonium in the courtroom.

And I love this bit. Just everyone's crowding around

the the reporters are trying to get in their nests.

Doesn't want any of that. He wants to go and confront

Capone. It's just really, really

brilliant movement. It's tremendous.

It is absolutely. Meant it's great.

It's like just when, when, when you say finally the legal system

is doing the right thing after after everyone being gang fucked

by like the law for like significant amount of the film,

even even fragnity with us, like get out of PE letter that he's

got, you know, like just just going to lay off this guy.

You know, it's like I'm on the mayor and shit and it's like

finally you see civil society doing like the right thing at

the end of the film. And it's like all it took was

like the deaths of some of the most beloved carrots in the

films and also a lot of like extraneous people who didn't

have to get killed. Little girl at the start, those

two sailors who were only trying to help if being Catholic that

was survived the shots, but the Lutherans that done and and and

it's just yes, it's like the payoff is tremendous.

The payoff's tremendous. The swell of the music.

It's mint. Yeah, you get the you got.

Another callback to another David Mamet esque through line

for the movie as well. So one of the things that keeps

coming up is, you know, you don't call a fight until the the

prize faces from the punch and the other guys, one guy's down,

the other guy's standing up, but it comes back again.

You know, you keep fighting. You keep fighting until the last

man standing here endeth the lesson.

So yeah, that's cool. So that's really, that's really

gratifying. It's a really good pay off and

the music again sells it. That's that big triumphant

fanfare again that I mentioned earlier.

And then you got the final a little bit, and I wasn't sure if

this bit would have made it in. If you've just read the

screenplay, this might have got cut.

But actually it does kind of work.

Is Ness back in his office clearing all down all the press

clippings and put them away in files, reflecting on all the

violence that's happened over the last, like however long he's

been doing this for years, I think.

And the final little line of the movie is the reporter that I

think it's the same reporter, that first spokesman when he

first arrived and took the iconic photograph and all that

kind of stuff, he says. You know, I hear.

They're going to repeal prohibition.

What are you going to do? And he goes, well, think I'll

have a drink? The crowd goes wild.

Bro it goes wild because it was never.

About It was never about drinking.

It was about the law of the land.

Yeah, very cool. Oh, nice.

Well, it's just just to. Explain to.

Everyone who's listening and not watching what what that is just.

So my. Kitchen is essentially.

A theme, Pablo. It's a crazy crap on the wall

and I have pulled from it postcard of some people

protesting prohibition. Bunch of guys in these gob

marching down the street holding little American flags and big

signs reading We want beer. So for all of you who are doing

this theatre of the main, that's what I've just pulled out.

Tremendous cool. Well, here end of the lesson and

here, end of the movie. Yes, I do.

Give me that action. Always stopping.

And pounding. Come on under.

Arrest. Hey this.

Isn't right, Hey. There's no good.

Final warrant Oh, here's my warrant.

Or what? Welcome back.

I was going to talk through. Some categories of the movie, as

we often do, first one we often talk about is casting and

normally of the smaller bit players in the movie, whatever

stuff they've been in and their rule in this movie.

So in that in that we all know who Kevin Costner is, although

at the time people didn't necessarily.

This is the same. He has his big breakout through

No Way Out. The first movie would be covered

very much like a guy in his rookie season pretty much

getting a shot at the big time. And this, this, this movie

catapulted him into stardom, I think.

But again, surrounded by seasoned actors the likes of

Sean Connery, Robert De Niro, but some the normal first in

this movie. I mentioned earlier on Patricia

Clarkson's first role was in this movie.

A lot of people know her now for being one of the cool parents in

Easy A. But yeah, great.

Or Tammy Wan from Parks and Rec, I mentioned earlier Jack Hew,

who is a great that guy actor, but his most known for roles.

He plays one of the Ben Coppers in Superco who's the 1st cop who

tries to get Frank Silico to take a take a bribe.

He's in The Sting as well. He's here a kid, and he's also a

Midnight Run with Robert De Niro as well as Jerry Geyser.

Midnight runs a fantastic film. I mean, we should cover one day.

We should indeed. God damn.

He has done a lot. He has done a significant amount

that would go Serpico. Obviously thermal TV's is once

again another one of the the that guys who was in Quincy, MA

Twilight Zone. It's done a lot of great things.

He got out of acting in 1997, but he but he only passed away

in 2020. Guess he was just.

Resting on some. Resting on some royalties and

residuals. Good for him.

Someone we didn't mention, but we don't.

Need to because he's not he's he's famous enough Andy Garcia.

I forgot to mention him yeah, a lot of people will know him from

oceans 11. I mentioned last week that also

he was in I'm a Mia here I go again.

But and and the Garf all that Part 3.

That was a big one. And here's a one that you're not

going to be expecting. Do you guys know who John

Barrowman is from Doctor Who? Captain Jack from Doctor Who.

So he is one of the policemen in the line up doing the the firing

range. No fucking way.

Well. He really has.

Been around for a while then. Very good.

Yeah, that was my most. Interesting 1 of Castig anyway.

Yeah, cool. Any any of those I was.

Going to. Mention Billy.

Drago's filmography because like you said, this guy's done an

insane amount of work. Does he second a bit parts and

tiny things and then you'll like do do like just major kind of

films like this and like with which have budgets, you know,

and then like a few years later recent like fucking walk at

Texas Ranger. So you know what?

This is sad, but. I feel like you kind of fell.

Off a little bit after this film because he's done like like you

did I mean he did like pale right our own stuff you know

and. Christ, he was in trouble.

John, MD. Brilliant mush.

Mush yeah, after. The Untouchables, he does kind

of fall off, which is a shame really.

I mean that kind of sucks. He's he's he's busy.

He does a lot. He was in, for instance, secret

games, straight to video gun crazy death ring in a three lady

dragon 2 the outfit, deadly heroes, Cyborg 2 glass shadow.

He also did the adventures of Briscoe County junior.

A lot of this stuff was like straight up like like a cut out

bin at blockbuster. But he's he's he's he's putting

in the work. I mean, as you said, he's a guy

who who plays the villains, but so many of these films that he's

done and shows, I will tell you one thing, have fucking really

cool names, really cool titles that I want to watch.

For instance, one of these things, one of these ones is

called Blue Devil. Blue Devil.

I want to watch that like now because that sounds class.

And then he said something called Soccer Dog the movie.

So so this guy who I think could have played a really good T1000,

I was only partially joking when I said he was T1000.

It's up in a film called Soccer Dog the movie playing the dog

catcher. He was also in that monkey

business film. Is that the one when like I have

to be very careful what I'm saying with this film?

Hold on, I won't be sure I'm doing yes it's the one I'm

thinking of. Two ex cons tried to frame the

good guy detective who sent up a gaol.

However, a group of kids shut the gangsters operation down

with the help of some friends from the animal Kingdom.

These films don't sound real. The sound like something from

Bojack horse but it's ridiculous.

He was a Nash Bridges will you fuck sorry while you were going

for that extensive. List of his filmography.

I was looking at Charles Martin Smith, who played Oscar Wallace.

Yeah, little guy. Yeah.

He was in it. And I.

Didn't know this existed. They made another TV series with

the Untouchables in the 90s. Yeah, it had. 42 episodes.

In 1993 and he played like a a judge in like 1 episode but

Ellie and Ness was played by a guy called Tom Amandez.

A guy called Paul Regina played Frank Andini.

The only two people who I know from other stuff are in it.

John Reese Davies by Gimli. Yeah.

Salah from Jones. Yeah, I played Agent Michael

Malone, right? Yeah.

And Michael Horse. Who you might.

Recognise from Twin Peaks. Get in.

He is agent. George Steelman.

But yeah, that's it. Really weird.

Sorry, just just threw that in there.

I have. I have.

The vaguest memory of watching the The Untouchables ATV series

that you mentioned on Sky One back in the day sounds about the

kind of thing I have. One of the vaguest.

Memories of it also have a second weird Mandela effect with

some of the and this kind of ties into the series thing.

We had Mandela effect with with with Sean Connery because I was

convinced there's a scene in the film and after after Malone's

been killed, you see his body in like the Mortuary and like the

kind of like lifting up the the kind of like, you know, sheet to

show his face and stuff. I was convinced that was in the

film. And I wonder if that is is in

the TV series, maybe because because in hindsight, it's not

going to be in the film because Sean Connery won't learn another

accent. He's not going to sit for five

hours to have people put dead guy makeup on him, right?

You know, he's like. No more, there's.

Dead guy shit, you know, he's fine playing a dead guy.

Well, a dying guy, but he's not going to like sit there and get

the deathly power shit put on him.

So I think that's where ME went. Mandela Effect on that comes

from. I tried to see if there was any.

Redemption for our poor little girl in the beginning.

Her name is Aditra Cole and no, that was the only movie she was

ever in and so she was traumatised.

Like I was blown up in this movie.

Never again, man. I just have this idea of like

sure, show his parents push never to be the kid that gets

exploded and afterwards she's like, that was actually shit.

I wanted more lines. You're a terrible momager.

And then she just quits and then she does off Broadway stuff

after that. Shall we proceed to quotes then?

Yeah, yeah, OK. I'll let you kick off already.

Since you have an interesting quote you want to do so I.

Love the scene when Malone's like Italian detected racism

activated. So it's it's when he started

giving Stone shit about his names.

What's your real name? That is my real name.

What's your before you change it Giuseppe Petri.

I knew it. That's all you need won't even

whop on the team. I had the weirdest again Mandela

fact about this. I was convinced in the film he

called his name an Ellis Island. Hand me down right.

I was convinced that line was in the film.

And you know what? That line's from An episode of

Malcolm in the Middle. Now this.

This. This right is.

Maybe a tick in my wife's got a running chart.

I think of does Rory have CTA from quite a few bunks on the

head. I wonder how I'm getting fucking

CTA. Might I tell you what?

Because like I was convinced our some Ella silent hand me down.

That's your real name. Like no, no, it's like literally

it's like a racist old lady in an episode in Malcolm in the

Middle says says someone's name is an Ellis Island.

Hand me down, yeah. Just that.

Whole scene is eminently, eminently quotable.

Your long term memory was like. I'm going to put that in the.

Same bit of the filing cabinet that Sean Connery lives in.

Basically it's like I. Say that you're a lying.

Member of a no good race. Much better than you, you

stinking Irish shit pig. I like him.

Incredible. But it's like, did we just

become best friends? Yup.

Brilliant. Absolutely.

That's great all, my favourite. Lines in this movie all come

from Jim Malone as well, when he first meets Nest and he's got

the the night stick and he's like, OK, pal, why the Mahaska?

Why are you carrying a gun? So what's the origin of the the

word Mahaska? I love it.

Yeah, Mahaska. What the fuck's amazing?

Why are we still saying that? Why are we saying?

Straps and packing it little bit.

I'm carrying. I've got my mahaska.

I've got bahaska. Yeah, Bahaska, the word Mahaska.

At all it's sake like it's like the Dollar General version of

ayahuasca, you know like it's like you want you want to really

trip balls and purge some black format out.

You go for the mask on me. Come on.

And then he's. Like, wait a minute, what the

hell kind of pleats when you go to this goddamn city, you just

turned your back in an armed man, secure treasury officer.

How'd you know that? I just told you that.

Who would claim to be that? Who was not like, like a wise

old Yoda, I was gonna say. He's like violent Yoda and it's

like. We would claim to be that who

was not? Yeah, that's like that's like

turn. My.

Body Cam off I will. Resistant, you must stop.

A badge you carry. A gun you must, officer.

Prone Isness. Reporting for duty.

Oh my God, right. I've got 2.

So 1 is is the one I wrote you guys earlier, which is just this

is amazingly out of context. Like is this the guy that can

finger Capone? It's like, OK, guys, this is

taking a weird turn now. I mean, this is very, this is

very liberal for a prohibition film, but what?

With this consent? With this consent what?

Is going on in that top floor of that hotel.

You know what? And the.

Other one is just just one. It's just that moment in the

train station where when SS take him, that really shows the

change from that. I want to get him, but I want to

get him like legally and cool and I don't want to do anything

that is like too extreme. He sort of has to get convinced

to even shoot someone, and then he's just like, take the shot.

Yeah, He's like, shoot that guy. Yeah, explode.

His head explode his head with. Your 30 head calibre extra

special I think I know we. Mentioned this at the beginning,

I think You pull a knife or you pull a knife, you pull a gun.

He sent you the hospital, you send the one to the morgue.

It's the Chicago and it sets the it's just like very extreme.

It's just badass bars. That's iconic.

Isn't it? Yeah, yeah, that's one of those

clips I'll dig out on YouTube around again just to just to

enjoy that scene again. Yeah, get yourself pumped

before. You don't have you or something?

Yeah. That's the Chicago.

Way. That's the Chicago way.

Hell yeah. You pulls a knife, you'll pull a

gun. Yeah, so good.

And there's a there's a there's a behind the scenes little

featurette that I watched today where they talk about some of

the stuff in the production of the movie.

And Sean Connery is just giving an interview and he quotes that

entire monologue just in the interview and it's just as good.

Let's try and find it. I'll turn it to fucking

treasure. I like the bit where they're

interviewing. They're trying to find the the

two new recruits and the one they they talk to before they

get to Andy Garcia. Yes.

And he he like just can't. Talk.

He's like, why? Do you want to be a police

officer? He's like to protect the to

protect the. I'm not looking for the.

Yeah, book answer. Why do you want to join the

force? The force?

Yeah. Why do you want to join the

force? Because I I think it could help.

I think you think you could help with the force.

Thank you very much. You've been most helpful.

There goes the next chief of police.

So good. Absolutely brilliant.

That's also not in the screenplay.

Like the screenplay really. Like needed some work to make it

funnier. My favourite one, of course.

Jim Malone firing his gun to stop a suspect from running from

away from him in the Canadian countryside.

Right? Enough of this running shit. 11

people found that one helpful and I maintained that might have

been an ad Lib because I think, I think Sean Connery probably at

this point had a, there was like a ticking clock and how much

he'd run in a film. He's not going to exhaust

himself for these people. He's Sean Connery at this point,

man. He's like, I'm going to run a

bit, then I'm going to stop ticket, you know, But he's

kicking off for that guy. As well.

Back in the cabin and he's like, you're mucking with AG here pal.

You'll hang as high as payment unless you cooperate.

Yes, Hag as high as. Him and love that.

Oh, that's so good. I'm sorry, I'm dying, Needle.

Drops we talked about. Enya Morricone's incredible

score earlier on. Somebody got labour on this.

There was a couple of Duke Ellington pieces in the movie as

well. Oh, and obviously Pagliacci as

well. Trivia.

OK, right. So.

Ordinarily on trivia I would just go up to the list of IMDb

and read through that, but I've got some other trivia as well

that I found for this movie. Looking for a list of the

inaccuracies that I detected from my Internet research that I

did today. Capone never stored any of his

booze in a federal building, so the he never stored A1 in a post

office, for instance. Ness predominantly hit locations

where the booth. Was made or sold.

So he wasn't. He wasn't tracking shipments or

going to customs yards. He was going to like speakeasies

and like breweries and distilleries.

There were up to roundabout 10 guys in the Untouchables at any

one time and a sort of a bit of a bit of a rotating door.

They had different jobs. There was a guy who was like a

handwriting analysis experts. There was like a a wiretap guy.

There was they were doing lots of their own rules.

So it wasn't just like 4 guys with guns like kicking down

doors and and shooting people. It was.

It was a pretty sophisticated operation, which isn't really

shown in the movie because it's not as fun the whole way that Al

Capone. Got.

Stitched is totally different in real life.

So the tax evasion was proved similar to the screenplay, not

so much in the movie, but they discovered of all the different

companies and that were feeding his organisation, one of them

was a dog track. And the Ledger from the dog

track hadn't properly encoded his entries and was making

payments to just Al, which is like really obvious if if, if

everyone else has got like all these fake names.

So then they got the handwriting from that Ledger and linked it

to to another Ledger in the organisation and made the

connection that way like a legitimate thing, managed

something like that. And that's how they did that at

the bookkeeper. Lived testified at Kapoor's

trial. Ness and Kapoor only met at the

trial and not earlier. Ness wasn't involved in the

trial really. He was just spectating at the

trial. He wasn't like sat right at the

front talking to the DA or anything.

This is all the IR SS investigation and his was just a

bit of a side piece. And I mentioned that Frank Nitti

isn't killed like he was in the film.

He survived. He took on Capone's operation

for another 12 years after this and didn't die until he killed

himself the eve of his own trial when he was getting done.

But one thing that is true, which I was surprised that after

all that was that the juries were really bribed and they and

they were really switched like in like in the movie, which is

pretty cool that as well. So that's so that's that's the

history bit. Have you got any cool trivia?

I have some great. Trivia, especially based on

actors in the weird shit to do so.

So Sean Conway turned up with the shoot in his golf clothes.

They did a close up and Sean was dismissed for the day.

Andy Garcia and Charles Martin Smith grabbed them after the

scene and said that was very clever of you, you just got back

from golf, turn up for 5 minutes and do your scene and that's it.

Con returned to them and said this is not my first BBQ.

That's brilliant. So De Niro wanted.

To wear the same kind of silk underwear as Al Capone, the same

style of silk underwear as Al Capone wore, I would never be

seen on camera. But.

But the producers, knowing De Niro's reputation as a method

actor, gave in. There's a limit, right?

I mean, I guess at least his method acting isn't the kind of

oh, I'm going to be a menace to my to my colleagues, like like

Jared Leto playing the joke. All right, Like, like that's

just been a bad fucking Co worker.

But it's like, I mean, I'm, I mean, I'm not going to argue

Robert De Niro's acting chops, but do you think he asked to

keep the underwear if you were in a position if you.

Were Robert De. Niro and you were in a position

to make that kind of demand. But if you would, right, like if

you had the, if you had the choice to to wear Robert De

Niro's, Al Capone's underwear, yeah, I would do.

It I'd do it. Yeah, definitely full.

Heartbeat. Yeah, and Bob Hoskins was

initially signed on to play Al Capone, but then Brian De

Palma's first choice, Robert De Niro, became available.

Hoskins still received a $200,000 paycheck from De Palma

for being a great standby. By God, Hoskins late.

I used to tell the anecdote that he asked De Palma by there were

any other movies he didn't want them to be in.

It's so good, isn't it? I love that one.

Yeah, a bit of a casting. What if he had?

Don Johnson was offered the role of Eliot Ness, but declined.

Can you believe that? So this is.

This is 3 years into his Miami Vice period.

Yeah. I don't think he would have fit.

Like the sort of Jimmy Stewart, Gary Cooper, like good guy role

that that that's required because he barely hangs it

together in Miami Vice. He's like a he's like a deadbeat

dad in Miami Vice, pretty much. Yeah, he just doesn't have the

same energy that Costner brought to the role.

I think. I think a lot of I think a lot

of what Costner brings to the rule work with us here.

A lot of what Costner brings to the rule is that there's not a

lot of Costner like like not a crazy out there guy.

Like like the players are very kind of mild and kind of dull

character really. Like I mean Ellie Elliot S

wouldn't be a good hangout. Like you know it would be cool

do to hang out with, you know rest of the team would be a

great hang. You know, it would be great to.

Go on the piss with. Malone, you know, forget about

it. He's fighting everyone.

Be amazing, you were saying. I was just thinking about a

similar rule. That he had in terms of his type

of character, is when he plays Ray Kinsella in Field of Dreams.

Yeah, where he's he's just got. Like a wide.

Out of optimism. And there's just like a little

Boy Scout, which is the same kind of rule he's doing here,

except he's a Boy Scout with a gun here.

But he taps into the same energy in No Way Out.

But he makes that work because of the twist at the end, right?

Yeah. But he's not this corn.

Fed Iowa boy. He's actually like a, you know,

but he's also a corn fed Iowa boy.

He does. We had shit like eating bugs off

a windscreen. Elliot Ness wouldn't eat bugs

off a windscreen. Elliot Ness wouldn't do any of

this stuff. You know, he said quite a

dispassionate guy. I mean, the only that kind of

real passions he has is there's a little bit of violence,

there's a bit of vengeance in him and there's the holy that

tells his wife he's going to have sex while then she's

pregnant and then she's got a baby like a year later.

So, yeah, like there's there's there's not a lot of like Pzazz

and vim and vigour and verve and Costner's performance.

And that's what makes him he's a good guy palette that you can

kind of like put your own opinions of what he would should

be on kind of thing. You know, like he doesn't have

like complexities that someone like Don Johnson might have

brought The rule is what I'm saying, I guess.

Yeah, man, I agree with you on that.

Yeah, because Don Johnson comes with his own a baggage.

You're absolutely right. Because he has like he's just,

he's carrying a lot more personality in his face.

Yeah, we're actually discussing. Like a family function where

we're discussing Kevin Costner's acting last night, and I was

told, what's Yellowstone? Because Kevin Costner is not

very like Kevin Costner in it. Yeah.

Yeah, I agree with that. Another actor who could have

been like him, I think is Gary Sinise.

Yes, he also has a similar. Kind of.

Like every man could could just be a really bland, yeah, blank

slit kind of character as well. Probably got market corrected by

Kevin Costner. Yeah.

What? I don't know if it's.

Really a lot to. Do well it's Capone but proven

fact not quite movie related that he did start a soup kitchen

in Chicago to try to rehabilitate his image and then

the unproven Not really. They were trying to attribute

the invention of expiration dates on milk to him after his

sister got sick, but that's unproven.

So. But I found that tidbit

interesting. I've kind of related that to the

beginning with the beer being brewed incorrectly.

And I was like, oh, maybe that's it.

But I could not find any evidence that he actually did

responsible for that. It's amazing.

That's wild. Yeah.

That's really interesting. Yeah.

There any more Capone facts? Yeah.

I meant to ask my. Dad about that to see if he

could give me any tidbits and I I did not hear back from him in

time for this so. Too late to for a.

Post podcast but if I find out anything, you know but yeah

yeah, yeah, yeah let's. Learn more.

We'll, we'll wait an update, yeah.

We'll have. We'll have.

We'll have an update from you. Fantastic.

Sounds good. I think the final thing before.

We move on is. I'm singing a good a good double

header for this this movie. If you want to watch a double

bill would have been does you any of you happen to see that

movie The high Women, I think it's called, which is the movie

where, yes, Kevin Costner plays. That's right.

Yeah. the US is it US Marshals, Texas Rangers?

It's the Texas. Rangers go after Bonnie.

And Clyde? Correct.

Yeah, I saw it when it came out. In 2020, I haven't seen it

since, but I remember that being really, really good.

Really good. And it gets.

The guns so right as well. Cool modern machine rifle baby

sat on straight spread hitting vacant man, they're all.

Words, right? Continuing with the categories,

I'm not going to ask Sonia how would actually No, Sonia, how

would this go down? How would this have gone down

in? Germany.

This is Pablon Berlin, right? I guess but.

Can you like? Imagine the concept of

prohibition going down in be a country like that'd.

Be weird. It's like.

Like I. Don't know that that'd be riots

the second someone tried something like that.

You want me to do what? He's drinking, Excuse me, I

mean, I don't know about about you guys, but like drinking a

such a huge part of professional culture as well over here.

Like, I mean, I, I know the Navy things and whatnot.

I know the Americans are a dry Navy now, but we we have like

things where you'll have like a glass of ports on the bridge

with all the offices or like beers after getting into port

with all team on the flight deck.

So bridge, bridge to fridge. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bridge to fridge. Loud and clear and cold.

Used to get whatever used to. Raft on a NATO trip it was

because to me to send a little pallet across with a shot on to

the ship you rafter begins to yeah yeah yeah send someone a

bottle of. Gin or something?

Yeah, again, like, yeah, light. Line Jack Jack stay with a just

a bottle of Brandy across it and nothing else is a is a razz yeah

so so so even when when we. Bad work in uniform, alcohol as

a thing. So I don't think just banning it

everywhere would be worth something.

Yeah, it's certainly on the decline, I think.

The Roger Nige, it's a long. It's not gone though, but it

used to be. It used to be because they

stopped. Giving out daily rum references.

Since because. Of work black.

Was it it? Was the 30?

1st of July 1971. Yeah, it's the final, the final

tot of run issued in the Royal Navy.

No more. Splicing the main brace, but we

still do that. No, we still do that.

So as you splicing in Bruce, we did it for I've only done it a

couple of times, but it comes through.

So, Roy, I don't know if you know this, but splicing the main

brace comes through as a signal from the the monarch yes to to

to. Theresa Toast and.

We did it, or was his name little Prince George and the

other Princess getting born? We we did it for them too.

My my Uncle Billy joined the. Navy just after Black top day.

She was gutted if he didn't get as dearly tall.

I remember your Uncle Billy. Yeah.

I met your snag. Yeah.

Yeah, some guy. OK, cool, that was a weird

little. Diversion also, you see, you

see. This is like what I said This is

why we are the premier defence military film thriller podcast

man 10s of listeners. Yeah, we are tolerated worldwide

by by two mighty handfuls of people.

I'm going to get to the. Categories now where we ask some

pretty pretty random little questions here.

Jen, I don't know how many of these you've listened to, but we

tend to ask if this movie would be better with a handful of

actors or characters in them. So the first one is a Trimvert,

all played by Horrison Ford. Would this movie be better with

Doctor Jack Ryan from the Tom Clancy movies, Doctor Richard

Kimble from The Fugitive or President James Marshall from

Air Force One? Guys, what do you think?

So fun. That is a tough one actually.

Jack Ryan's Catholic enough to be in this film.

He is, well, Catholic enough to be in this film.

Completely salutely. This would be like, obviously

Jack, Jack Senior. I guess what I mean.

The thing is canonically, canonically, Jack Ryan's dad was

a cop in Boston. I think so.

So he could have transferred. There after Chicago, but it's

like but yeah, the fucking Jack Ryan senior would as as dad

would have been there and just just cuff looking up the place.

You know he's he hasn't just got his got his like Saint Jude

thing on him. He's he's got tokens and trick.

It's of all the Saints you know, he's he like makes him always

like a gaoler when he walks. He's got a key ring with like

icons of every Catholic. Say it no to man, you know.

And if it was Jack Ryan, do we? Think he's going to be trying to

take him down for tax evasion or is he just going to try to take

Al Capone out himself? Yeah, just just.

You've got to just act decisively your unilateral that

dream this was depends which Jack Ryan.

It is, doesn't it? If it's John Krasinski's Jack

Ryan, he's going after the money.

Yeah. But if it's Harrison Ford.

'S Jack Ryan. He's probably, he's probably

just taken some names, isn't he? You're not even in taxes.

Anymore, Yeah, he's going to print out a document so.

Fast, that's going to get you in prison for your feet even touch

the ground, it's going to evade. This motherfucker, I'm not sure

how, President. James Marshall would have would

have banned alcohol in the 1st place I'm pretty sure.

I'm pretty sure how President James Marshall would have like

he he would have looked at the vaults that act and being like

get off my plane and just thrown through the documents out of

whatever presidential aircraft I had at the time.

Pry out of the Air Force One thing from call sign, get off my

plane. He throws it out of his little

biplane and then the vaults that act and null and void and get

out of my Senate. Yeah.

He said it. Oh man.

Cool. I think we've answered that

question. Is there a role in this movie

for a weird little guy played by Peter Falk of Combo fame?

We have a weird little guy. Do we need a second one?

Are you referring to? Our friend Oscar Wallace.

I mean, I I don't really see Peter.

Falk with a shotgun. I can see Peter Falk with a

crinkled. Up trench coat good like the the

financial disbursement, yes, yeah, that one.

You know, Mr Capone, I've just got one more question about your

income. Why does this my wife usually?

My wife usually does the taxes but I've noticed that.

I don't know about you, but in my house.

My wife does the Texas could go to your house.

Nobody. Does the Texas.

What's up with that, Mister? Capone, could you?

Imagine if, through some quirk of fate, Peter Falk end up

playing the Malone character, no.

Fucking buddy be so good this load.

Little ruggedy, kind of kind of Columbo esque guy just being so

menacing. I love it.

But yeah, just I imagined it'd be funny if you'd played.

The bookkeeper as well. So his his entire role was just

to be like, Hell's menacingly right.

But I'll tell you what you want. I'll tell you what you want.

I'll tell you what you want. Incredible, Incredible.

There's a rule for. Lieutenant Commander Samuel R

Jackson, U.S. Navy in this film.

But there is a similar film that I think we should cover called

Hoodlum from 1997 which stars Laurence Fishburne and it tells

the story of Bumpy Johnson, which was another and.

Dutch Schultz as well. Which is about African American

gangsters in Harlem in New York during Prohibition.

So the same time period, different city, different gang.

But that's that's a really good movie.

Which also has Andy Garcia in it.

Well, that sounds class. That sounds min Yeah, that's a

movie That that's. Already on the clear and present

list. It is indeed.

It also has. Richard Bradford.

In it, who was in this movie as Mike, the old Irish cop, a chief

of police. So yeah, there's lots of lots of

crossover sweet cool. Again towards the end last

couple. Guys, I got I got wrong off you

Rory for not including this last time.

So I'm going to include it. Is this movie pro anti Central

Intelligence Agency? This film is.

Entirely CIA neutral. The CIA did not exist, but the

USS didn't exist. I like as the last one, you

know, had the USS kind of involved tangentially.

So while I admit I did give you wrong, for us it was deserved

indeed. Qualifiers.

IRS. Propaganda.

I was going to say it's. The IRS doesn't mention a name,

but you're absolutely right. I think it's federal government

coded. Yeah, fed pilled, Fed pill.

Yeah, fed pilled. Incredible.

Fed pilled in somebody. Else's lane thriving.

Overstepping my boundaries so. I've got the scores now.

I think we're still 6 through against.

OK Rory O'Toole, have you got any notes from the peanut

gallery? Methodical removing of the

glasses says. Yes, and you have notes in the

peanut gallery and they are good ones.

This film's got some very interesting opinions from people

on Friend of the Podcast that are boxed.

Not a sponsor yet. There's a lot of people who were

giving it, like bizarrely weighted kind of scores we have.

3 1/2 stars. Kevin Costner is a bad actor.

Three stars. Not entirely sure what the point

of this was. We've got ones that are really

dead set against this film as well.

One star. This was so bad and costar is so

fucking bad. Every time I see him I get

angry. I give this movie A1 star just

because I have to do it for America.

I give this movie A1 star just because of De Niro.

Robert De Niro's Al Kapoor was amazing, he was incredible, but

the whole movie was trash and boring and distasteful and I

want to punch Costa. He played with my nerves.

I hate him in this I hate him in this. 2 1/2 stars not terrible

but fairly shite. 4 stars just I never knew there was so many

anti Italian slurs. 4 stars. What you say the entirety of the

review. 2 1/2 stars. Dad really wanted us to watch

this film. I don't think it's really my

sort of thing. And also too much shooting.

It is a dad coded film. And 1 1/2 stars.

Yeah, Kevin Costner does the worst possible Chicago accent.

It seemed like everyone is having a who could act worse

off. Also Robert De Niro portrayed Al

Capone as if Al Capone was trying to act as Robert De Niro.

Cool suits though. Some absolute bangers here.

I think Kevin Costner makes every movie is in corny as fuck.

Should have had way more scenes with De Niro.

De Niro's character was really the only good thing about this

movie. 2 stars and so that's one.

If they're not plotting, they're brooding.

No in between and just a three star one.

The extent of the three star assessment is Robert De Niro

looking like Tony Soprano. Yeah.

Fantastic and just a. Great one here.

Five stars. Now that's a fucking film, by

the way. Absolute banger.

Sean Connery is a fucking Why do I?

Think this was. Written by a glass region.

Go on. Now that's a.

Fucking film. BTW, absolute banger.

Sean Connery is a fucking hammer in this film.

Great music too. How mad was prohibition BTW?

That sounds. That sounds glass region in my

head. That sounds with my

father-in-law. And.

Yeah, and just a two star here. That's kind of scaring.

This is the last one we'll end on.

That was not good, mostly because of cost now, but

partially due to some silly scenes in a score that didn't

always fit the tone of the movie.

Fuck you. The story relies on the lead

being able to relate the audience his internal moral

struggles, but Costner plays it far too small.

Also, I just can't portray subtleties or big emotions, at

least not in 1987. I think he's going to.

I think he's grown as an actor since then, but his early work

is so flat. Well, he's kind of flat in this

film. There was, however, some

excellent camera work and directions typical of De Palma

that compelled me to finish the movie.

Also, Connery and De Niro were fun to watch.

But water is wet, fork found in kitchen, etcetera.

Wow. Absolutely.

Divided. Opinion.

Yeah. Here endeth.

The notes Peanut colour. Right, cool.

Final category, and this is where I'm going to open the

floor to you guys completely. Ding Chavez Award for the missed

opportunity in the movie. Jen Fioriuelas.

Ding Chavez is a minor character in the Tom Clancy universe who

gets not enough to do in the film Clear and present danger,

which is why we've called this category that.

But yeah, guys, what did this movie not do that you think

maybe it shouldn't? I mean, what didn't it do?

It went from. Chicago to Cowboys, and that was

a really. Good fight.

Actually it did a. Lot of things, I'll let you guys

give a real answer. Though and.

Missed the opportunity there was.

Mounties getting into full on close combat range with Lancers

and just skewering these guys. Just just just these Mounties

are like we are. We are no longer asking

permission and just getting on the bridge.

Lance's couched. Just skewering, skewering these

Italian Americans, making a real kebab out of them.

It missed that opportunity. Yeah, there's actually that

scene had a. Missed opportunity in some way.

I mean, that's something that has sort of irked me a little.

Like, the entire firm has no issue with blowing up little

girls, getting children into the middle of gunfights, exploding

people's heads and whatnot. And then there's this tight

packed bunch of mounties on a horses on a bridge, and there's

like a dozen people with machine guns firing at them.

Yeah, and none of them. Are dead.

Afterwards, what's going on there?

I like, I refuse to believe that 20 like 12 people with Thompson

guns could like miss that sort of target completely.

Star Wars Stormtroopers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not. I mean that makes it.

Calling that a missed opportunity to makes it sound

like I I would really love to see some some dead Mounties.

That's that is distinctly not the case.

But yeah, that that was a bit off from the rest of the film.

Yeah. So I think I've got.

A reason why that? Happened and because you're

absolutely right, it doesn't tie in with the rest of the movie in

terms of how guns are operated, especially a Tommy gun, which

has incredible accuracy if you pointed at Sean Connery, but at

nobody else apparently, which is when they it's not Irish seeking

ammunition. To have.

That's where the Mr Mouth works. When you're aware when?

They filmed this sequence. Between like what's going to be

the Canadian border. They actually shot it in

Missouri. I forgot the name of the bridge

now, but all the riders on the Mounties are just locals.

They they've drafted in to ride the horses and they had room in

a field adjacent for like 100 or so other people just to spectate

what was going on. I just watched watched the scene

get filmed. But I think because they got

like regular local people from nearby to ride the horses, they

probably didn't have them doing any stunt riding for like

getting shot and falling off for anything like that, in case it

has something to do with the insurance.

That's my theory. But that's how they shot the

scene anyway, so that's apparel to Lord.

Of the rings, really it is with the.

The Kiwis a random and they're hearing horse.

Girls and and putting beards on them horse girls and.

You got some. Incredible scenes of of so my

minor missed opportunity. My serious 1 is the.

Way the really thin. Home life they've got for Elliot

Ness for narrative economy, I guess makes us a very kind of

good guys versus bad guys. Nobody's complicated kind of

story when actually Elliot Ness's home life was a lot more

complicated. You know, he had three wives.

He was a bit of a the Jackal lad and and not the kind of whiter

than white hero is portrayed to be in the movie.

My less serious word is I know we said earlier on we didn't

really want it, but I still would like to see at least in

the deleted scene of the race track shootout where they pull

the guy's fake moustache off. I wanted to be Sean Connery, who

did. Wait a minute lad, there is Sean

Connery. Who?

Does it in the in the. Screenplay as well, I'm going to

find, I'm going to find the line.

So what happens is there's a race track, the race that this

guy's about a bet on is for a horse called Paymaster, and

they're waiting by the bookies, Little kaboosh, because the

final bets are coming in for that.

And the guy, obviously, he's going to want to put a bet on

and he's meant to have slipped his handlers from Capoon's gang.

So that's how they're going to get him.

Turns out he's a trap. A bunch of Capoons thugs pull up

and a big oil truck and and and. Yeah, yes.

Malone shoots a. War Rig.

Yeah, Malone, Malone. Shoots it with a gun, like a

shotgun or something and it bursts into flames and spills

over. But more goons get out of it

somehow and sort of like walking around the fire that's formed.

So there's like the street's on fire, there's like people

running around, these guys come out.

It's a big trap. This is a very different.

Film. At this time, this is a very

different film. This is very much.

Like when I had that deleted. Scene from any of the state we

were talking through. Yeah, so Angle at the front of

the oil truck, Nest and Stone coming around the truck, Malone

in the foreground, bookkeeper between them.

Nest, Malone, Let's get under safety.

Malone and Stone host of their guns.

Stone, Mr Payne, Angle Payne, who has been standing in the

middle of the battle. He takes a submachine gun from

under his arm, pulls the boat on the submachine gun and starts to

level it. At Stone and Malone, Nest takes

aim, his gun clicks on an empty chamber.

He draws another pistol from the small of his back and fires,

killing Pain. Who's the bookkeeper?

Angle Malone, the dead Pain, Nest and Stone a beat.

They advance on the fallen body. They pause above the body.

They turn the body over Angle on the fallen water.

Pain the three untouchables standing above the body.

The men look at each other. Malone bends down to the body.

Malone kneeling by the body of reaches for Paine's moustache,

pulls it off. It's an imposter.

Malone stands. Ness Well, well.

And now we're back where we started, aren't we, Malone I

have a lead. You go back to the store.

The Dai think I know how we can find this guy.

STONE I stopped fighting too soon.

Ness. Mr Stone Yes, you did.

If you get into it, you do not stop until one of you is dead.

Malone I didn't know you carried a second gun.

Ness You never need it until you need it badly here, end of the

lesson. So Ness gives Malone a lesson,

but that that dilutes the impact of him seeing here, end of the

lesson at the end of the movie, though, I think.

And it does, and it and it doesn't.

Make sense when put in context with the big shootout at the

station, because a lot of that, like kind of hinges on the fact

that he's got a shotgun, he's got a sidearm, there's not an

additional. Side on and then Stone comes in

with it comes in clutch with their throws it so yeah, it's a

very different kind of film. I'm glad to talk that out, but

on the. Words here under.

The lesson we hear end of the podcast, I think guys, one bit

of a business before we depart. We talked offline last time

about doing our next movie being a particular film.

I want to change that and I want to posit.

To you a notion. That we stick with Brian De

Palma. Yeah.

And we do potentially, if you guys agree Mission Impossible

from 1996 the first one. Let's do it.

Or a. Christmas film.

But I mean. After you until you want to

watch Die Hard. Not necessarily die hard, but.

Let's do any shit in Black Film, OK?

Call it Mission Impossible One. Yeah.

Yeah, cool, right? All all that remains to be said

is thank you very much Jen for joining us.

I hope this hasn't been too boring with me and Rory

basically talking incessantly. Well, this has been exciting

and. Very first podcast, always look

for those things sometimes, yeah, it'd be cool to have a

podcast. So I'm like, I have nothing to

talk about. I'm really kind of related to Al

Capone, so here we are. It's awesome.

It's been. It's been a total pleasure

having you, Jen. Absolutely.

Thank you. It has and you.

You. Have an open.

Invite whenever you want to come back.

All right, Ashok, Fantastic. That's great.

Any. Whatever movie you're doing

ahead. Of time and I'll watch it.

Awesome. Right.

Well, that is. Left to be said then and we try

and do this in unison every time.

We never once done it, but we have been clear.

President. Dudes, that was the closest.

We've been to being synchronised.

The Untouchables (1987)

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